2023 Argentine Touring Car Series

[TuteZaek]

And the star shows her face to the world

EDIT: It sounds amazing.

[Adamcas87]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

And the star shows her face to the world

EDIT: It sounds amazing.

Nice, any audio of the sound?
What engine they going with?

[TuteZaek]

Here via Carburando's Twitter
https://twitter.com/CarburandoTV/sta...96612723327023

The engine is based on the VW 2.5 I5 of the Vento/Jetta, in theory there is also a 4cyl option but the fact that they showed the 5cyl i'd guess that they went with this one.

Here is the engine via Velocismo's Twitter https://twitter.com/VelocisimoLT10/s...06167276540018

[Andrew Abbott]

It looks OK at the front, but the rear is absurd...

[Adamcas87]

Originally Posted by Andrew Abbott

It looks OK at the front, but the rear is absurd...

Yeah yikes not sure about that

[TuteZaek]

Making an aero efficient hatchback is always a mess when compared with more normal cars, the solutions here are kinda similar to the 3rd gen Megane Trophy

[TuteZaek]

Leonel Pernia and Antonino Garcia (Fluence - Axion Racing) won, for the 3rd time in a row, the 200 km of Buenos Aires over team mates Marquez and Fineschi on another Fluence, and Aldrighetti with Piquet Jr. in third (Corolla - TGRA)
This win means that pernia is matematically the 2023 TC2000 champion and just needs to start the remaining 2 races to make it oficial

The race was pretty much lineal and with the exception of a safety car in the last laps, Pernia dominated without much oposition.

On the bad side, just 9 cars finished the race of the 19 that started it, and there were a lot of brake problems that the series was given notice by the drivers and teams since the tests, that wasn't a good image.

[NaBUru38]

Rodrigo Aramend?*a (who is indirectly related to me) had a few skirmishes. He stopped to change his front right tyre, but for some reason the mechanics didn't. The tyre then blew up and he retired from the race.

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Rodrigo Aramend?*a (who is indirectly related to me) had a few skirmishes. He stopped to change his front right tyre, but for some reason the mechanics didn't. The tyre then blew up and he retired from the race.

The Pro-Racing team is far less than a shadow of the 2022 one, everything was awfull from their performance yesterday... but, in their defence, the whole field was mechanically bad, the TC2000 got one of the worst reliability outings if not the worst, in a long time.

[TuteZaek]

Also, talking about the problems, according to Maxima Velocidad it seems that there was a change in the brakes supplier just before this race, and aparently it was done without much testing, every car had brake problems, including the winner of the race, and some drivers (With Montenegro and Girolami among the most vocals) complained.

[FIRE]

Except for the rear the car looks great.
More like a hatchback than SUV.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

Making an aero efficient hatchback is always a mess when compared with more normal cars, the solutions here are kinda similar to the 3rd gen Megane Trophy

But when creating new technical rules they can force teams to a better looking solution. One similar solution for all brands, something like the rear of the
Cupra TCR car.

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by FIRE

But when creating new technical rules they can force teams to a better looking solution. One similar solution for all brands, something like the rear of the
Cupra TCR car.

But that's the thing, the actual TC2000 is faster and more developed than the TCR cars, and they want to go even faster.
(the engine on this thing will be over 400hp, and they're fwd, they'll need all the aero help possible)

[helgi]

Please, explain a bit. Do every team build their own cars around a standard roll cage? Is there any room for suspension creativity? Or is it just different shells upon 100% identical cars? Thanks a lot.

PS Do Turismo Carretera teams tweak their engines somehow and have more freedom in tech side? If so, I'd prefer even old TC cars over new TC2000. I hope there's a Klondaik of tech info about these cars anyway.

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by helgi

Please, explain a bit. Do every team build their own cars around a standard roll cage? Is there any room for suspension creativity? Or is it just different shells upon 100% identical cars? Thanks a lot.

PS Do Turismo Carretera teams tweak their engines somehow and have more freedom in tech side? If so, I'd prefer even old TC cars over new TC2000. I hope there's a Klondaik of tech info about these cars anyway.

It varies on the series:

TC, is a standard roll cage (well actually 4 diferent roll cages for 5 models + the new ones that are adapted to them) with the bodies using parts made to the same standard of production models (in the case of the old out of production cars) or actual body panels of said models (the Camry and the new 2024 cars), the current fronts are common and there are 2 designs (Cuervo and Alifraco) with i think 2 variants each (at least the Alifraco one has 2 variants)
While the "survival cell" is common, there are enough differences on them to give performance variables (IE: the Ford is derived from an older design (2013 Aventin's championship winning car), and everyone talks about being harder to work with, the Torino is the best balanced in terms of weight distribution...etc)
The engines are new cast of diferent old blocks (Derived from the Ford 221, Chevrolet 250 and AMC XJ 4.0) with a common design 24v dohc head by Berta, the internals are heavily regulated but there seems to be some wiggle room for the "motorists" to make some difference, they usually are owned by the motorists who build the engines that buy from the ACTC/Berta in a "kit form" of sorts (and then rent them to teams/drivers) or teams, but even the drivers themselves sometimes own a set of engines. The mainteinance is done by the builders/teams
Gearboxes are common Saenz 6 speed secuential
Suspension uses standard parts and brakes are free.


The TC 2000: They use the basic monocoque of the model, but with a common cage, suspension, brakes (that did a number last race) and heavily regulated aerodynamic kits, that still have room for teams to work on (or had, before a freeze this year) The new ones afaik continue with the same idea and cage.
The engines are common Oreca built 2 liter turbo 4 cyl that are provided and maintained by the series and then "raffled" to the teams for each race
Gearboxes are common Xtrac (iirc) 6 speed secuentials for everyone


The TN uses the monocoque of the model homologated with a cage built by the team (is the most conventional of the "big series) each model has a particular homologation that defines their ruleset allocations (aerodynamics, albeit very limited, weights, etc.) and engine, the homologation is valid for 5 years.
Suspension should remain similar in concept to the base model afaik
The engines are built by teams/builders and run on a similar homologation regime, but on longer times to reduce cost so you could have, for example, VW models that have a Ford engine homologated for them and the like


Finally Top Race uses a common chasis and silhouette for all cars with the only difference between models being the front.
There is 2 aerodynamic kits for the cars, the common one and a "better one" used to help struggling teams (yeah, thats stupid)
The engines, built by Berta, in line with the TC2000 (owned by the same company) are provided and maintained by the series, and afaik alocated in the same manner.

[hondafan37]

TC 2000 SUV development, first part of the video in english....
https://youtu.be/j6KUkDQe79o?si=MQYo4Xdmk6K6jawL

If Milei wins next Sunday, the development of Argentine motorsports could be incredible!!! Viva la libertad carajo!!!!

[helgi]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

It varies on the series:

Thanks a lot! It got much clearer! Is there any Argentinian site or a blog about tech side of racing? Smth like Racecar Engineering about TC? I've found some ancient Corsa magazines and they were full of interesting articles. Unfortunately, it seems like they've been closed for a long time. Are there any alternatives? I remember I've visited an Argentinian site with some tech info and short analysis of all the races for Super TC2000. Maybe it was Corsa. It was long ago, though.

Few fans are really bored with TCR and GT3 stuff, and some racing variety should be an oasis today. I was happy when Brazilian Stock car tried to be interesting from tech point of view, but, sadly, they've returned to the place they'd already been. So, at this point Argentinian Touring looks more interesting, at least, for me.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

The TC 2000: They use the basic monocoque of the model, but with a common cage, suspension, brakes (that did a number last race) and heavily regulated aerodynamic kits, that still have room for teams to work on (or had, before a freeze this year) The new ones afaik continue with the same idea and cage.
The engines are common Oreca built 2 liter turbo 4 cyl that are provided and maintained by the series and then "raffled" to the teams for each race
Gearboxes are common Xtrac (iirc) 6 speed secuentials for everyone

Here's a video about building a TC2000 car:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuNDFHXn2HA

[TuteZaek]

Originally Posted by helgi

Thanks a lot! It got much clearer! Is there any Argentinian site or a blog about tech side of racing? Smth like Racecar Engineering about TC? I've found some ancient Corsa magazines and they were full of interesting articles. Unfortunately, it seems like they've been closed for a long time. Are there any alternatives? I remember I've visited an Argentinian site with some tech info and short analysis of all the races for Super TC2000. Maybe it was Corsa. It was long ago, though.

Few fans are really bored with TCR and GT3 stuff, and some racing variety should be an oasis today. I was happy when Brazilian Stock car tried to be interesting from tech point of view, but, sadly, they've returned to the place they'd already been. So, at this point Argentinian Touring looks more interesting, at least, for me.

Campeones, Solo TC, Carburando, the Motor Deportivo shows (Maxima Velocidad and Ultima Vuelta) and P1 (on youtube) tend to do the odd technical piece from time to time (specially now that the "big 2" are having such big changes)

Then the IAD (Instituto de Automovilismo Deportivo, a specialized "trade school" of sort, founded and staffed by a lot of big names in the argentine scene, from late Alberto Canapino to Rafa Balestrini, Mauro Medina, Guille Cruzetti and others) publish some interesting technical notes in its site blog that tackle some of the "inside" or less heard of aspects of the argentine race cars (and even compare them with other race cars)

[helgi]

Originally Posted by TuteZaek

Campeones, Solo TC, Carburando, the Motor Deportivo shows (Maxima Velocidad and Ultima Vuelta) and P1 (on youtube) tend to do the odd technical piece from time to time (specially now that the "big 2" are having such big changes)

Thanks a lot! What has happened to "sportmotor" web-site? I've used to read it but now it looks like it hasn't been renewed for a year.

[NaBUru38]

Websites come and go, as always.

The Corsa website was live like two years after it was last updated.

[TuteZaek]

Mauricio Lambiris will have a "Halloween Special" livery for the next race at Rafaela

[NaBUru38]

TC Pick Up - playoffs standings after Comodoro Rivadavia:

1. Diego Ciantini (Volkswagen), 94 pts
2. Mariano Werner (Toyota), 91
3. Juan Pablo Gianini (Ford), 90.5
4. Andrés Jakos (Toyota), 76
5. Gastón Mazzacane (Volkswagen), 62
6. Juan Martin Trucco (Volkswagen), 60.5
7. Omar Martinez (Ford), 30
8. Franco Morillo (Ford), 59.5

Next round is on November 5, yet again at La Plata.

[NaBUru38]

Turismo Nacional - standings after El Calafate:

1. Leonel Pernia (Ford), 247 pts
2. Juan Manuel Urcera (Ford), 245
3. Jerónimo Teti (Chevrolet), 239
4. Julián Santero (Toyota), 237
5. Joel Gassmann (Chevrolet), 195
6. Gastón Iansa (Ford), 195
7. Andrés Jakos (Toyota), 194
8. Matias Muñoz Marchesi (Ford), 187
9. Jonatan Castellano (Chevrolet), 163
10. Facundo Chapur (Ford), 162

The final round is on November 18 at Viedma.

[NaBUru38]

Of course, the best way to keep updated about Argentine touring car racing is through Satrasca videos

https://twitter.com/Satrasca1/status...53445232218260