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3 Feb 2024, 23:00 (Ref:4195001) | #226 | ||||
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I saw a comment on social media elsewhere that said to the effect "Goalposts are heavy, so it must be hard to keep moving them". The entire process has placed ever increasing roadblocks in front of Andretti and Andretti has continued to meet the requests. And at each turn a new excuse has been provided. The most recent is "ask again in 2028". That new moving of the goalpost and FOM's general tone in their response is just galling in the transparency of it's overt offensiveness. Quote:
Richard |
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3 Feb 2024, 23:09 (Ref:4195003) | #227 | |||
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What is interesting is that they could have maybe said something as simple as that. Such as... Hey, we just think that a new team, any new team as the current buy in doesn't work for us. That the anti-dilution fee is not high enough (not that I agree with that). But instead I think they decided to place a few knifes in Andretti's back. Why is that? I can think of two reasons. (1) Andretti irritated them and they did it out of pleasure (2) It builds a case against Andretti directly for any future legal action. That at honest answer such as I proposed might not play well in any potential court case. Regardless, I think their tone was overly harsh which IMHO, might actually work against FOM. In that it might show some level of malicious intent. Granted, this is likely to play out in EU courts (if there is any legal action) and I have no real understanding as to what may or may not be damaging in EU courts. Quote:
Richard |
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4 Feb 2024, 01:05 (Ref:4195014) | #228 | ||||
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Also, the undisputed champions of unknowingly ****ing off American race fans goes to the ACO. They are first ballot hall of famers. |
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4 Feb 2024, 01:05 (Ref:4195016) | #229 | |||
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If I was Andretti I'd get the application in for 2028 & push the issue a bit, see if FOM is true to the suggestion in its statement that a 2028 Andretti / GM entry would be viewed differently. It would have to be done on the basis that fees etc would be subject to the new Concorde Agreement. It just feels like a better approach to me, rather than sitting on your hands until the new Concorde Agreement comes into play in early 2026. I get where you're coming from Richard, just have a different approach to dealing with it. |
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4 Feb 2024, 01:09 (Ref:4195017) | #230 | |||
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It is against the very ethos of F1, and against the very ethos of what Grand Prix are. That is an open competition that anyone can enter and race in regardless. If they are successful they win in the overall way, prize money and sponsorship. If they fail, they fail and can try again, or go away and lick their wounds, maybe come back, or go and do something else. This present situation and the assumptions around it are greed. Ive already said the dilution fund is a joke. It is simply and artificial enactment to try to close the door on others and superficially increase the value of the teams. Ive already said everything else about why I believe its a falsehood, so no point in repeating myself. The best solution for motor sport and the FIA? The bubble to burst, the whole circus to collapse return to the FIA and a properly run F1 championship rise up, based on the values of open competition it has historically had. If that actually happens I couldn't be happier about the result of this FOM action. |
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4 Feb 2024, 01:29 (Ref:4195020) | #231 | ||
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Richard |
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4 Feb 2024, 01:44 (Ref:4195022) | #232 | |||
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Take this with a grain of salt, because I've been trying for days to find out whether it was the FIA or FOM that requested applications in the first place. I'm assuming it is the FIA, but I have yet to find a solid source. Is this what getting old is like? |
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4 Feb 2024, 02:08 (Ref:4195023) | #233 | ||
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GO Hard or GO Home |
4 Feb 2024, 02:39 (Ref:4195026) | #234 | |||
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The applications were opened / requested by FIA with a clear part of the process that acceptance would be needed from both FIA and FOM for an application to be successful. Just remember that old age and treachery will always overcome youth and ability - also that toothless be ruthless! |
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4 Feb 2024, 02:40 (Ref:4195027) | #235 | ||
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4 Feb 2024, 02:41 (Ref:4195028) | #236 | ||
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
4 Feb 2024, 02:44 (Ref:4195030) | #237 | |||
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4 Feb 2024, 03:05 (Ref:4195031) | #238 | |||||
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Richard |
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4 Feb 2024, 03:46 (Ref:4195035) | #239 | |||
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If approval is not forthcoming, then there are three options for GM / Andretti:
So that leaves the viable options as re-apply now, buy another team or walk away. I'd be going hard on re-applying now out of those three, particularly given the pretty strong statement in the FOM release about how a 2028 Andretti/GM project would be viewed very differently from the current Andretti / customer engine project put forward. |
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4 Feb 2024, 04:15 (Ref:4195039) | #240 | |
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Yeah, we are talking past each other. I understand what you are saying as to their options. But it doesn't answer the question as to why would GM continue to spend money on F1 power unit R&D if they have no guaranteed entry for their partner. Your answer is effectively to spend the money and hope for the best. Nobody in their right mind would approve funding for that.
Richard |
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4 Feb 2024, 04:28 (Ref:4195040) | #241 | |||
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My view is that Andretti / GM have a possible opportunity to get a guaranteed entry by re-applying but if the aren’t successful or don’t try, then yes, it’s hard to see any logic in GM progressing. |
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4 Feb 2024, 04:36 (Ref:4195041) | #242 | ||
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I think you're right. And whatever truly American team that joins the sport still has some work to do to earn my support!... I've been a McLaren fan for 25+ years now!
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4 Feb 2024, 04:46 (Ref:4195043) | #243 | |||
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And what the FOM decision about Andretti effectively says is that any team/OEM who attempts to start a new entry cannot be guaranteed an opportunity to get a place on the grid unless FOM/LM deem them to be s suitable partner.... And also that the existing ten teams have the right to block any new entrants not withstanding that the maximum grid under the FIA rules is 26 cars. The FIA itself cannot even give approval to any new entrant to actually join the grid unless FOM and the desire of the teams see the entrant as being acceptable on their terms, which it is becoming obvious is purely financial, not sporting. This is nothing like F1 historically. Not even like it was 10-12 years ago. It is almost as if the people running the show and participating in it have fallen in love with themselves and their own PR, and become completely divorced from reality, not even able to see themselves as others see them. We may not be at the peak of foolishness yet, but it can ultimately only lead downwards. |
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4 Feb 2024, 05:35 (Ref:4195044) | #244 | ||
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If Andretti were to get in. I probably would support them via my "underdog" tendencies, but any long term support would not be guaranteed. Richard |
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4 Feb 2024, 08:44 (Ref:4195051) | #245 | ||
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Inexperienced team, rookie season , rookie driver who let’s be honest is middling / good in Indycar. Hardly a recipie for pulling up trees…
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4 Feb 2024, 19:53 (Ref:4195078) | #246 | ||
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Could this predicate a Haas buy out?
Gene might say hes going nowhere, but in the f1 world everything is for sale, its just the price. Hypothetical. Haas sells to Andretti. Then Haas try to buy in as team 11. FOM cant say "unknown, inexperienced" etc. |
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4 Feb 2024, 20:09 (Ref:4195081) | #247 | ||
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What they say is irrelevant to the real reason they knocked back Andretti.It is 100% about the teams not wanting to cut the pie 11 ways instead of 10.Then FOM has to do the teams bidding to keep them on side.
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5 Feb 2024, 13:00 (Ref:4195175) | #248 | ||
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In its lengthy statement explaining the decision to block Andretti's debut, the Liberty Media-owned Formula One Group mentioned that team officials actually turned down one particular offer of a meeting in London.
Andretti has now hit back, claiming the invitation went into an email spam folder. Enough said......can't even run an email account properly |
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5 Feb 2024, 13:21 (Ref:4195176) | #249 | ||
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An interesting article from Motorsport, in the aftermath of the Andretti decision. Apparently the e-mail that ended up in the spam folder was sent by an F1 employee, rather than Domenicali.
As for a 2028 entry, the penultimate paragraph says: ''Andretti will remain free of any financial or aero testing restrictions for a couple of years, and the team can spend whatever it wants to spend on R&D.'' https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...sion/10572307/ |
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5 Feb 2024, 14:35 (Ref:4195190) | #250 | ||
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(1) Don't fall for it Andretti. It's a trap. In 2028 the other teams will claim that Andretti and GM have an unfair advantage given the financial resources and significant racing pedigree of both organizations. Their ability to have spent, hire and organize without any limits constitutes an unfair advantage for any entry in 2028. That they should follow established governance for spending (just like any other F1 team and Power Unit manufacture). Given this issue, FOM can not accept an application for 2028, but would look favorably toward an application from them in 2035. (2) A kind clarification from Stefano Domenicali Gentle Mr. Andretti, I wanted to reach out to you to provide some extra clarity on our response to your recent application to join the Formula 1 racing series. As we have previously noted, we are unable to accept your application for a variety of reasons we have cooked up. As part of that response, we felt that as you are not a Formula 1 team (and God willing you never will be) it might seem callous and uncaring for us to place restrictions upon how you spend your own money in the future. Therefore as it is your money, you can spend it as you see fit. Consider this a blessing we have bestowed upon you as consolation for not being accepted. We understand that Pickleball is quite popular in the United States. Consider taking that up as a hobby. Or open a cupcake shop. Of if you want, you can continue to play house with General Motors and make "race cars". Anyhow, best of wishes in your future endeavors. Cordiali saluti, Stefano "The Hammer" Domenicali CEO Formula One Group PS: Please stop calling and texting as I have blocked your number Richard Last edited by Richard C; 5 Feb 2024 at 14:41. |
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