Sao Paulo Indy 300

[Purist]

Alright, I can get technical on this if you insist.

Texas, Charlotte, and Atlanta all have three-piece front stretches (corners all banked at 24 degrees). Joliet (18 degrees), Kansas (15 degrees), and Kentucky (14 degrees) have two-piece front stretches, and Joliet has a curved back stretch. Las Vegas' front stretch has a virtually continuous curve. Las Vegas and Homestead have progressive banking of 18-20 degrees.

Loudon has 12-degree, banked corners. Phoenix is 11 degrees (1 & 2) and 9 degrees (3 & 4), while Milwaukee is just over 9 degrees. Pike's Peak is banked at 10 degrees. Richmond, Nashville, and North Wilkesboro (which I think has been resurrected) all have 14-degree banking. Memphis is banked at 11 degrees. Iowa is banked progressively at 12-14 degrees in the turns. Orlando has corners banked at 10 degress (Turn 1), 8.5 degrees (Turn 2), and 7 degrees (Turn 3).

There are also the two high-banked, 1-mile ovals at Dover and Rockingham, NC, which both have 24-degree, banked corners.

Fontana is banked at 14 degrees and Michigan at 18 degrees. This is a bit ironic, since California actually has the faster lap record. Fontana has a more elongated shape than Michigan. Texas World Speedway is a very similar layout to those two, with corners banked at 22 degrees.

Pocono has its corners banked at 14 degrees (Turn 1), 8 degrees (Turn 2), and 6 degrees (Turn 3).

And just for the heck of it, that oval I mentioned in Argentina, Rafaela, is very elongated in shape, with a length of 2.897 miles, and turns banked at roughly 10-12 degrees, near as I can tell visually.

Happy hunting for your oval wish lists!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

Happy hunting for your oval wish lists!

What about Brooklands? I know it hardly exists, a crying shame and not a true oval but what °s were its banking? Any idea what the banked section of Monza was?

[Purist]

I'll say right now, based on some basic trigonometry, that the Brooklands banking was roughly 18 degrees. This might seem low given the size of the ting, and its height, but remember, the track surface is 100ft wide (for reference, Indianapolis Motor Speedway is only 50ft wide). I'll have to look up Montlhery to let you know on that circuit. Monza has, though not necessarily on purpose, progressive banking. I'm not sure what the inclination at the bottom is, but at the top, the Monza banking has a slope of 80%, or 36.9 degrees. The North Curve, or "Wall of Death" as it came to be known, at AVUS in Berlin, was a brick, banked turn of 43 degrees.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

I'll say right now, based on some basic trigonometry, that the Brooklands banking was roughly 18 degrees. This might seem low given the size of the ting, and its height, but remember, the track surface is 100ft wide (for reference, Indianapolis Motor Speedway is only 50ft wide). I'll have to look up Montlhery to let you know on that circuit. Monza has, though not necessarily on purpose, progressive banking. I'm not sure what the inclination at the bottom is, but at the top, the Monza banking has a slope of 80%, or 36.9 degrees.

Thanks. Monza 36.9°, blimey.

[Juarez Jed]

Personally I would love to see Pocono get a run but as you say Jagtech they have to run where they get the best compromise of the biggest crowds, the highest exposure to important markets and the greatest corporate support. A big enough sanctioning fee can negate those three priorities too I guess.
What makes for the best racing isn't the top priority, or our opinions for that matter.

[Juarez Jed]

http://www.vintagespeedway.com/Maroubra.html

Gotta love the people sitting on the track at the top of the bowl and the infield tote boxes !

Safety could be a problem I guess !!

[bjohnsonsmith]

That's a fantastic piece of history; I bookmarked and will have a good read later.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by mz2k

I believe Foxboro is the venue rumored. Perhaps in the parking lot around Gillette Stadium.

If that race is confirmed, say goodbye to New Hampshire. That would be terrible, since it's the only short oval which has actually asked for a race. There should be just one street race in the Northeast, and that's Baltimore.

Originally Posted by Purist

the South American swing might be a better deal, and be more interesting, if you paired Sao Paulo up with the oval at Rafaela, Argentina

No way! Rafaela has two very, very open corners and no safety infrastructure for 230mph cars. Perhaps the IndyCar could try the Turismo Carretera layout, with three or four chicanes.

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Chicagoland and Kentucky are shaped a little more like a wankel rotor than a D

They call that "trioval".

[Tim Northcutt]

For the record, I like diversity in ovals, but do not oppose the 1.5-mile ovals at all

[bjohnsonsmith]

I like the diversity of Indycar racing, from 1.5 mile ovals to Longbeach to the Indy 500 itself. F1 doesn't have this. It has some classic tracks but there seem to fewer of those compared with a few years ago. I'd really like to see Surfer's back on the IICS schedule.

[Purist]

Putting the chicanes in at Rafaela would defeat the whole point. The point was to have Indy Cars do an oval race in front of the South American crowd. If you insist on the chicanes, they may as well run somewhere like Potrero de los Funes instead.

Perhaps Rafaela could call in whoever did Potrero de los Funes to do the support facility upgrades. Yes, the corners on that oval are quite open, but that's due to the sheer size of the track. The corners have fairly low banking though, and are at the ends of very long straights. Put together a proper superspeedway wing package, and the average and cornering speeds won't be absurd. Rafaela is also plenty wide enough that adding a SAFER barrier around the oval wouldn't cause problems.

As to the argument about spectator numbers, sanction fees, and all that jazz, wouldn't the venues that put on the best racing, even if they initially don't pay the series the most, be the best for getting bums in seats and eyes on the tube in the end?

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I like the diversity of Indycar racing, from 1.5 mile ovals to Longbeach to the Indy 500 itself. F1 doesn't have this. It has some classic tracks but there seem to fewer of those compared with a few years ago. I'd really like to see Surfer's back on the IICS schedule.

I'am 100% agree with you...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by marcostraz

I'am 100% agree with you...

However, I don't like the fact it's a spec series.

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

However, I don't like the fact it's a spec series.

Me too...I hope we will see soon at least some other engine manufacturers, with Honda...

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

Putting the chicanes in at Rafaela would defeat the whole point. The point was to have Indy Cars do an oval race in front of the South American crowd. If you insist on the chicanes, they may as well run somewhere like Potrero de los Funes instead.

Perhaps Rafaela could call in whoever did Potrero de los Funes to do the support facility upgrades. Yes, the corners on that oval are quite open, but that's due to the sheer size of the track. The corners have fairly low banking though, and are at the ends of very long straights. Put together a proper superspeedway wing package, and the average and cornering speeds won't be absurd. Rafaela is also plenty wide enough that adding a SAFER barrier around the oval wouldn't cause problems.

As to the argument about spectator numbers, sanction fees, and all that jazz, wouldn't the venues that put on the best racing, even if they initially don't pay the series the most, be the best for getting bums in seats and eyes on the tube in the end?

Have you ever had a good look at Rafaela? You'd have to totally rebuild the place from the ground up.

[Purist]

I really didn't think it looked that bad from the coverage of last year's Turismo Carretera races, especially if the Indy Cars weren't dealing with the surface changes for the chicanes. The track surface actually looks better than Milwaukee did in 1994, and looks on par with how Pocono looks now.

[JagtechOhio]

I'll check back for the detailed pot hole analysis and gradient surveys.

Pocono is a dump, the IICS couldn't draw 30,000 there right now and they'd be bringing home a few cars in ice cube trays.

[Andy77]

I am not sure on the state of the circuit but Phakisa Raceway in Welkom, South Africa has a nice multi purpose facility for both oval and race circuit. Would be nice to see indycars there especially since the demise of a1gp.

[Purist]

Jag, the track has been resurfaced within the last handful of years, and the boiler plate walls have long since been replaced by concrete, and are now fronted with SAFER barriers in the turns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L11vTGwwyXw

So, Pocono has made quite a few changes for the better this clip; I certainly wouldn't call it a "dump" in its current state.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUs_aaF68qI

[Last2LiftOff]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

I'll check back for the detailed pot hole analysis and gradient surveys.

Sorry, carry on.

[JagtechOhio]

Brett Bodine, Nascar R&D and pace car driver, from July '09:

"Pocono, when it was repaved, was extremely smooth, didn’t have a lot of bumps and had a lot of grip. That track, due to its geographic location has weathered extensively. The surface has lost a lot of grip and has obtained a lot of bumps. So, that correlation between Indianapolis and Pocono, although it’s there because of similarities in the long straightaways and the relatively flat corners, is also starting to hold less and less of that to be true."

The biggest bump that was removed is the pile of cash on the table that accompanies the request, "Will you come race here?"

[Purist]

Indy Cars can handle some bumps on ovals, so that isn't an inherent problem.

As to who's money is involved in getting to a given venue, sometimes you have to be willing to make an investment, and then work to make that investment worthwhile.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

Jag, the track has been resurfaced within the last handful of years, and the boiler plate walls have long since been replaced by concrete, and are now fronted with SAFER barriers in the turns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L11vTGwwyXw

So, Pocono has made quite a few changes for the better this clip; I certainly wouldn't call it a "dump" in its current state.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUs_aaF68qI

Judging from those clips Pocono looks good. It would be good to have a tri-oval back in the mix, thus adding to the diversity. I'd also like to see the Milwaukee Mile back.

[JagtechOhio]

Well Purist, you're making setup choices a bit difficult.

In the F1 thread, you explain that those cars are very pitch sensitive for consistant downforce generation, even though they are flat bottom.

But here, you say that a Nascar driver's description of a bumpy track isn't a problem for an IndyCar at 200 + MPH, even though a significant percentage of their downforce is generated by the tunnels.

You must be a tough guy to select spring rates and build shocks for.

[Purist]

When you watch, Indy Car suspensions are FAR MORE compliant than those on an F1 car, which is why Indy Cars are better at handling the bumps. Also, the ICS cars don't make F1 levels of downforce, and are decidedly heavier cars (at least when they're empty). So there isn't as much downforce to be lost on an inconsistent surface. The car is better behaved over the bumps, and it should be harder to produce the amount of lift necessary for the cars to blow over.