The merged Merger thread (again !!) - Page 10

Tim Northcutt · 14 May 2006, 13:20 (Ref:1609513)

This is somewhat on topic, because it could definitely be a factor in moving a merger forward.

We have read the specualtion that Ganassi or Rahal could leave open-wheel in 2007 if the merger does not happen.

In light of Honda's announcement to compete in the ALMS in 2007 under the Acura brand, a Honda spokesman said on the CBS telecast of the ALMS race at Houston that they will filed two or three teams with a total of 3-4 cars next year.

Rahal would love to get back into sportscar racing again, and a factory-backed Honda effort would be his ticket to do so....he could easily make that move with Honda $$$ to entice him....

Bobby Rahal has been seen a lot at ALMS events over the past year or so, and it may involve more than watching his son, Graham, competing in Star Mazda or in a GT2 class car.....Graham already has stated that sportscars will be his chosen path of racing fo his career.

Whether Rahal runs both an ALMS and an IRL program would remain to be seen...but from what I've been told, Honda wouldn't have to twist his arm to go sportscar racing....that is where he got his experience

AGR also would be a big candidate to do so...I saw Michael Andretti chatting with ALMS officials at Mid-Ohio last year inthe paddock and pit areas of the facility....Honda $$$ from there would be an enticement to run as well....

Fernandez...who also allegedly got Honda $$$ to jump to the IRL a couple of years ago could be a candidate as well...He and Scott Sharp would make a great sportscar team, andHonda backing could put Adrian back into the driver's seat in that Series....this one sems less likely, because Adrian is racing in Grand Am...but an opportunity to go to Le Mans would be interesting, don't you think???

Since Ganassi has NASCAR, Grand Am, and IRL programs going already, and hisIRL program is back in the thick of things, I don't see him going to the ALMS Honda program...expecially since he campaigns Lexus powered cars in Grand Am...

If he leaves, it would be to focus on his other two programs.

But if the Honda money talks...having the IRL possibly lose one or more of these programs to other forms of racing or to the ALMS would be devastating to the IRL next year...

the.cosmic.pope · 14 May 2006, 13:41 (Ref:1609531)

The team you didnt mention there is Penske. And from what I've been told, one of the main problem teams with this merger at the moment is Penske.

Snips1 · 14 May 2006, 13:50 (Ref:1609537)

Quote:

Originally Posted by the.cosmic.pope

The team you didnt mention there is Penske. And from what I've been told, one of the main problem teams with this merger at the moment is Penske.

Why is Penske a problem?

Tim Northcutt · 14 May 2006, 14:11 (Ref:1609553)

FWIW....

Penske is already in the ALMS running the Factory Porsche effort with factory drivers....Porsche probably won't let him run Castroneves or Hornish in their cars, because they already have great drivers under factory contracts in those cars, with more waiting in the wings to get seats....

But Penske is obsessed with Indy....read Team Owner's reply to this statement and other observations I made about Penske in the "1st Week at Indy" thread on the last page...

It confirms my observations....

He won't leave open-wheel, because winning Indy and returning to the top of open-wheel racing are his primary goals right now in racing

mountainstar · 14 May 2006, 14:32 (Ref:1609573)

Quote:

Originally Posted by the.cosmic.pope

The merger talks have actually been taking place a long long time, and ink was put on paper a week or so before Long Beach. What is stopping the process at the moment is not the series being in talks, but the teams negotiating what they want, and apparently, some of the bigger teams are unhappy at whats been going on.

That's what I theorized earlier and I believe if the series owners don't get it done, certain teams and honda will force their hand.

I would not object to a third party starting a new series. Champcar and indycar would dissolve. Tony would have his interests in the speedway and vision, kk would have his interests in the long beach and toronto races as well as PKV.

Tim Northcutt · 14 May 2006, 14:39 (Ref:1609580)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

That's what I theorized earlier and I believe if the series owners don't get it done, certain teams and honda will force their hand.

I would not object to a third party starting a new series. Champcar and indycar would dissolve. Tony would have his interests in the speedway and vision, kk would have his interests in the long beach and toronto races as well as PKV.

I agree with every syllable of that statement, mountainstar....

luke · 14 May 2006, 14:40 (Ref:1609584)

But mountainstar, I don't think for TG indy and vision would be enough for him.

mountainstar · 14 May 2006, 17:54 (Ref:1609713)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

But mountainstar, I don't think for TG indy and vision would be enough for him.

Yes quite true, but I think it is getting to the point where he has no choice. If he doesn't do a deal he may be facing a revolt. A lot of people from the fans to the teams, sponsors, drivers, engine manufacturers are sick of this situation and I thinks it's fair to say people have reached their limit.

rush1 · 14 May 2006, 22:22 (Ref:1609933)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Yes quite true, but I think it is getting to the point where he has no choice. If he doesn't do a deal he may be facing a revolt. A lot of people from the fans to the teams, sponsors, drivers, engine manufacturers are sick of this situation and I thinks it's fair to say people have reached their limit.

What about Kalkoven, does he have a choice?

ss_collins · 14 May 2006, 22:58 (Ref:1609957)

avoid the spec series - not a good long term plan for the industry as a whole - cripple the industry and you cripple yourself. IMSA Lites and DP I think have it right with chassis approval

Team Owner · 15 May 2006, 11:21 (Ref:1610435)

TG told me that he makes a profit on the IRL and The Pro Series. If he's making money why change anything?

luke · 15 May 2006, 11:27 (Ref:1610442)

Both are hardly considered healthy. TO would you support a merge or not just out of interest?

Seoigh · 15 May 2006, 12:52 (Ref:1610516)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

That's what I theorized earlier and I believe if the series owners don't get it done, certain teams and honda will force their hand.

I would not object to a third party starting a new series. Champcar and indycar would dissolve. Tony would have his interests in the speedway and vision, kk would have his interests in the long beach and toronto races as well as PKV.

OK then - might we expect (hope?) IRL & CCWS Teams to join forces with the disaffected F1 players when the Concorde Agreement expires...thereby instantly creating a worldwide 'killer' OW series?

...just a pipe dream...but Oh Baby...I'd LOVE to watch the WOW (World Open Wheel) series in 2009!

luke · 15 May 2006, 12:58 (Ref:1610526)

No that would suck...

Tim Northcutt · 15 May 2006, 13:01 (Ref:1610530)

Side Note:

Ganassi told the Indy Star he is staying in the IRL at least through the end of 2007...it is in today's Pit Pass section of the sports.

luke · 15 May 2006, 13:02 (Ref:1610532)

Well...many fans at Houston who spoke to CCWS team bosses in know appears mostly to be 50/50 in terms of road / oval or just over. And as mentioned TG was at Houston.....the teams are the ones who really know what's going on, but there have been so many proposels as to date...

StuiE · 15 May 2006, 13:18 (Ref:1610547)

KK shouldn't be demanding so many road courses, US OW was built on ovals, and imo should have at least 50% of the races on ovals. While neither KK or TG are in a commanding position, they should both be compromising so that the deal can be done.

What are your wishes, Team Owner?

luke · 15 May 2006, 13:20 (Ref:1610549)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtr69

KK shouldn't be demanding so many road courses, US OW was built on ovals, and imo should have at least 50% of the races on ovals. While neither KK or TG are in a commanding position, they should both be compromising so that the deal can be done.

What are your wishes, Team Owner?

Whilst I agree with what your saying, there's no real evidence apart from the horses mouth that he has demanded all the races non oval except two.

Snips1 · 15 May 2006, 15:32 (Ref:1610687)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

TG told me that he makes a profit on the IRL and The Pro Series. If he's making money why change anything?

He might be making money as of right now, but will he be making money when all the Honda money is gone?

Dennis H. · 16 May 2006, 03:28 (Ref:1611137)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Whilst I agree with what your saying, there's no real evidence apart from the horses mouth that he has demanded all the races non oval except two.

Today Roger Pesnke was interviewed and said that he thinks that there are some team owners in CCWS that don't want to merge and that is why Kalkhoven is having a hard time getting a deal that he can sell to his team owners. Interestingly he said this too:

"I tried a couple of years ago and it was very apparent that Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerry Forsyth were absolutely not interested in coming together with Tony George and his organization," Penske said. "They really didn't want Tony to be part of it and I think that's a mistake."

The more I hear the more I am believing the "two ovals" rumor.

CARacer · 16 May 2006, 10:38 (Ref:1611404)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

KK wants only 2 ovals, he wants there to be one engine suppler ( Cosworth) he wants 50% control of the league and it's venues ( think The Indpls Motor Speedway here folks)he wants the chassis to be Panoz and he wants Pi to do all electronics. All these companys are ventures that he has money in and are losing money , except for Pi and they make money off the IRL KK admitted to Tony that he funded Champ Cars to the tune of $ 2 Million for each car to run this year and he owns 18 cars thatstart every Atlantic race. That's a lot of money and no place to be dictating from.

There are so much lies in this post that you just proved you have zero credibility whatsoever. Claiming to be an ICS Team Owner must mean either you are a fraud or your one of those small time teams that are worried that a merger will force you out of work because you would lose your TG subsidy and/or be so uncompetitive that your team would be a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

KK wants only 2 ovals

Ok, this rumor has been floating around the internet, but has not been proven. Not too surprising, it's just the flip side of TG wanting only Long Beach and Toronto. Could just be the starting point of negotiations by both sides. Most likely a 50/50 IRL/CC mix. BTW, any IRL street/road race will be part of IRL's 50%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

he wants there to be one engine suppler ( Cosworth)

Complete BS. FORD (Cosworth) and HONDA have met and agreed in principle to be both suppliers to the new series, either Turbo or NA is still undecided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

he wants 50% control of the league and it's venues ( think The Indpls Motor Speedway here folks)

Minimum 50% control of the league is right, but venues like IMS have always not been included in the merger. That has been stated publically from the beginning. TG keeps and promotes IMS and Chicagoland as much as KK does with Long Beach and Toronto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

he wants the chassis to be Panoz and he wants Pi to do all electronics.

OK, this could be true, but another chassis maker matching the DP01 spec is being considered making it 2 chassis for the new series. Pi is one of the best in data, no objections on this from TG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

All these companys are ventures that he has money in and are losing money , except for Pi and they make money off the IRL

Obviously, KK does not own Panoz. Cosworth is not losing money, nor is Pi. Cosworth has many other projects outside of ChampCar and F1. Stating it is losing money is a flat lie from someone who is clueless to it's worldwide operations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

KK admitted to Tony that he funded Champ Cars to the tune of $ 2 Million for each car to run this year and he owns 18 cars thatstart every Atlantic race. That's a lot of money and no place to be dictating from.

This is the biggest lie of them all. KK is not subsidizing all the cars in CC. That was CART in the Pook era. Why do you think Rahal and Fernandez abruptly left in 2004. The new CC series cut the CART ESP (Entrant Support Program) and Honda offered them millions.

As for owning 18 Atlantic cars, that's completely false again. I am personally involved with Atlantics and I know that for a fact. It's amazing how you come with such allegations, even hardcore IRL supporter Jim Wilke who has tried to find fault with Atlantics from the beginning has not mentioned such wild speculation.

Even if what you say is true about the subsidies, do you really think KK who is an expert in mergers would be so dumb to admit to TG that he is supporting all these CC and Atlantic cars. You must be not successful in negotiations, if you believe one would admit his weakness to the other party.

Hazza · 16 May 2006, 11:24 (Ref:1611427)

CARacer, I therefore asume that you are in the know then?

luke · 16 May 2006, 12:21 (Ref:1611465)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis H.

Today Roger Pesnke was interviewed and said that he thinks that there are some team owners in CCWS that don't want to merge and that is why Kalkhoven is having a hard time getting a deal that he can sell to his team owners. Interestingly he said this too:

"I tried a couple of years ago and it was very apparent that Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerry Forsyth were absolutely not interested in coming together with Tony George and his organization," Penske said. "They really didn't want Tony to be part of it and I think that's a mistake."

The more I hear the more I am believing the "two ovals" rumor.

Link to the interview please...

luke · 16 May 2006, 12:25 (Ref:1611468)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazza

CARacer, I therefore asume that you are in the know then?

Well all of what he said made sense..and for all we know team owner could be nothing..after all he won't reveal who he is and why not? There are many big names for example drivers and team owners posting at CCWS forums and they say who they are and don't hide themselfs...

CARacer seems to be in the know as he's part of Atlantics.

D.R.T. · 16 May 2006, 14:00 (Ref:1611543)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Owner

TG told me that he makes a profit on the IRL and The Pro Series.

And I tell my son that there is a Santa Claus. You tell people what they need to hear.

Team Owner prior to the 2006 season didnt you also suggest that there were serious problems the prize money that was announced with Atlantics and not to expect anywhere near the amount of cars that were being rumoured ?

2 rounds in with 30 cars, your making it hard to take your word.

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