Special Saloon/Super Saloon Register

[allenbrown]

Great work Alan!

[GBRM]

Great work Alan, just a couple of tiny amendments from me:-

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

Here are my observations culled mainly from MNs on the 1972 season.

Gerry Marshall – Firenza 2.3/2.5 - silver with blue (2.2,2.4 & 2.6)
Dave Millington – Firenza 2.3 ex-Stan Burge and Gerry Johnstone (also driven by Gerry Marshall in 1972)
John Pope – Viva GT 2.3 (or 2.5 or 2.6) – ex-Marshall (written off at Lydden in 1971 but built up) – also driven by Derrick Brunt and Gerry Marshall in 1971, 1972 and 1982 (when it had become the twin-turbo'd Aston Firenza)

Ireland

Jackie Patterson (Paterson) – Viva GT 2.5 – ex-Bill Dryden (and raced by Gerry Marshall in 1974)

Sorry I don't know more on the non-Vauxhall stuff!!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Great work Alan, just a couple of tiny amendments from me:-



Sorry I don't know more on the non-Vauxhall stuff!!

Hi Gregor, I've thought long and hard about this before questioning your Vauxhall knowledge but wasn't (or isn't, apparently it still exists) John Pope's twin turbo Aston engined car a Magnum saloon, not a Firenza coupe?

[GBRM]

Feel free to question, I don't know a great deal!!
The Magnum/Firenza question is a difficult one and maybe not for here but basically they are all Viva HCs, which was only really a different body on the same Viva HB floorplan and mechanicals.
The Firenza name was used on all Viva HCs until the Droop Snoot came out and was then only used on that, thus making the Magnum for a flat front two door Coupe (or any other variant).
When the Droop Snoot was dropped the Firenza name was dropped altogether and everything was either a Magnum or a Viva.
Also, somewhere along the line the Magnum 2 door coupe was dropped but Vauxhall had a load of coupe bodyshells to use up so put a 1256 engine in with very basic trim and called the car a Viva E - confused?? You will be!!
In '72 Dad race a Firenza in Group 1, in '73 and '74 he raced and rallied a Magnum and also a Firenza (the exact same car!!). In '75, '76 and '77 he raced a Firenza in Group N but a Magnum in Group 1 (looked almost identical), the only difference being the Firenza was built in '73 and was called a Firenza then and the Magnum was built in '75 when the Firenza name had been given to the Droop Snoot.
I hope all that makes sense and feel free to question!!
Saying all that though, I think you're right, John's car was a Magnum (at the time) - didn't someone say the other day it's registered with the DVLA as a John Pope Special??

[Al Weyman]

I was looking at one the other night the owner is showhorning a massive 7.3litre Mopar V8 into the thing, he already has one as door slammer Drag Car but this beast is to be a road car! I told him it should be a Big Block Chevy but he would have none of it.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by GBRM

Feel free to question, I don't know a great deal!!
The Magnum/Firenza question is a difficult one and maybe not for here but basically they are all Viva HCs, which was only really a different body on the same Viva HB floorplan and mechanicals.
The Firenza name was used on all Viva HCs until the Droop Snoot came out and was then only used on that, thus making the Magnum for a flat front two door Coupe (or any other variant).
When the Droop Snoot was dropped the Firenza name was dropped altogether and everything was either a Magnum or a Viva.
Also, somewhere along the line the Magnum 2 door coupe was dropped but Vauxhall had a load of coupe bodyshells to use up so put a 1256 engine in with very basic trim and called the car a Viva E - confused?? You will be!!
In '72 Dad race a Firenza in Group 1, in '73 and '74 he raced and rallied a Magnum and also a Firenza (the exact same car!!). In '75, '76 and '77 he raced a Firenza in Group N but a Magnum in Group 1 (looked almost identical), the only difference being the Firenza was built in '73 and was called a Firenza then and the Magnum was built in '75 when the Firenza name had been given to the Droop Snoot.
I hope all that makes sense and feel free to question!!
Saying all that though, I think you're right, John's car was a Magnum (at the time) - didn't someone say the other day it's registered with the DVLA as a John Pope Special??

Hi Gregor, the distinction I was making is that I'm sure that John Pope's car is a saloon (not coupe), so should either be a Magnum, or indeed a Viva! The Firenza was only ever a two door coupe, either before, or as, a Droop Snoot.
(Sorry to be SO pedantic, but I was surprised to be disagreeing with you on something Vauxhall related! )

[driftwood]

I am sure the John Pope Aston car was called Magnum it was the viva saloon shape but i seem to recall in Production saloons the Radio Hamilton? car wasentered as Vauxhall magnum and that was a coupe
was the magnum and the firenze the same shell but different names for car due to engine capacity
waiting to be corrected

[GBRM]

This is where it is confusing, I think John's car was a two door saloon (which Vauxhall did make to confust matters!!). I'll double-check if two or four though, it definitely ended up as a two door only car and it was definitely called a Magnum.
The Hamilton Motors prod Saloon was a Firenza and was entered as a Firenza in 90% of it's races but there is the odd one or two where it is a Magnum - same car, same engine, same shell.

[Angus Theape]

I am sure Eric Smith in the Escort 2lt BDA was a one off loan of (iirc) Alan Palmer's escort for a bank holiday monday meeting at Croft, where alan didn't have a national licence and lent the car to Eric.

[MONDELLO MAN]

RE POST 225
Gerald Roache bought an ex Wylies of Glasgow Escort for John Keaney to drive , will confirm with JK that the Brodie deal never happened .
Des Donnelly sold his HC Viva ti Jay O'Malley .
in an earlier post Seamus O.Connor is referred to as having a t/c Anglia , it was fitted with an FVA .

[Alan Brown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

I am sure the John Pope Aston car was called Magnum it was the viva saloon shape but i seem to recall in Production saloons the Radio Hamilton? car wasentered as Vauxhall magnum and that was a coupe
was the magnum and the firenze the same shell but different names for car due to engine capacity
waiting to be corrected

Having looked at a picture of the John Pope Special, it has a 2-door saloon body.

[Alan Brown]

Thanks GBRM (post 227).

Reports often gave different engine sizes, so I gave the most common. In the case of the Firenza the reports were probably correct. But for Bill Cox (Capri V8) and Martin Kent (Rapier V8) there are many variations and not even consistency about the make of the engine! In both cases Chrysler and Chevrolet being quoted as I have indicated in earlier posts. Probably Chrysler and Chevrolet respctively.

[MONDELLO MAN]

From memory in the early 70s , an article in Hot Car magazine on Bill Cox's capri said he spent £20 on replacement engines , I may be wrong , I will go digging.

[davyboy]

Here's a picture of Fintan Newport's Escort in the Phoenix Park... Eddie you may know the provenance/background of this one.

[MONDELLO MAN]

ex MATTIE MC NAMARA , built by John Robinson ,
spoke to John Keaney today , Gerald Roach was in discussion with Brodie to buy car as mentioned in MN , the ex Wylies escort was sold to Irish rallydriver John Bridges and was used for rallying .

[morninggents]

I have results from 1975 where John Pope's car is described as a Vauxhall Magnum. Also from 1977 where it's called a John Pope Special Magnum and an Aston Martin Magnum.

[Alan Brown]

It is good to have clarification of matters across the Irish Sea.

Was it John or Jim Graham in an Escort 2-litre?

[driftwood]

was mattie mcnamara mk2 escort a space frame or steel shell conversion car?
Robinosn built 3 space frame mk2 escorts
1 Gaa car nick whiting
1 to walter robertson 2 litre motor
3rd was sold to italain guy but autosport did not report for what motor ( poss 2 litre) and what the man would do with teh car race or hillclimb
nick sold his Ga car to scotland john kirk took his davrian imp in part ex Nick also ended up advertising walters car for sale

i do think i read in AS the third car was advertised for sale in uk need to look at my notes

[MONDELLO MAN]

pretty sure Matties wad a full space frame , will confirm

[davyboy]

Where did Mattie get the car... and where did it end up. I've vague recollections of it in The Park as a kid... incredible piece of kit.

[Alan Brown]

In 1973 it would have been a Mk 1 Escort.

[Alan Brown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

1977/8 ex-Hazlewood XJ8-Chevy 7.0 - destroyed in a workshop fire Out of the ashes rose the Phoenix (Skoda with the 7.0 Chevy) for 1979-80. skoda was F5000 based i believe the jag was not a total write off ex hazle wood sheel at autosport nec auction few yrs back

You are right. I have been given a copy of the entry in Cheffins auction catalogue 15 January 2005. From Mick Hill it passed (minus running gear) into the hands of the MotoMart dealership, being used for promotional purposes. The vendor (who?) acquired it c. 20 years before. "It would appear to retain its original passenger cell together with sundry components....currently fitted with Lola T70 suspension uprights and wheels (or so we are informed)."

[Alan Brown]

I have referred to Tony Roberts and an Anglia, notably Spottie. In fact there appears to have been three Anglias. He started with a 1.5 pushrod Anglia. having won his first ever race at Brands with this car he and his friends got drunk in the bar afterwards and celebrated the victory by writing the car off on the road whilst driving it home. The next Anglia had a 1.6 pushrod engine. which was written off at Paddock Bend (B H) whilst dicing with Gerry Amato. His third Anglia was a 1.6 Twin Cam painted white with black spots as was his crash helmet. Apparently his girl friend (later his wife) once turned up in a ultra-mini skirt in matching polka-dot pattern. This was the car that caught fire in the paddock at Lydden, but was repaired. This prompted him to buy some fireproof overalls, previously he had raced in jeans and a tee-shirt. He later became the sales and marketing person for Hawke and drove the works Formula Ford in 1970

[driftwood]

Alan the Jag when at AS NEC auction looked VERY tired had hardly any paint on it
is the Cheffins auction car same condition?

Mattie McNamara escort Mk1 i recall him racing early 70`s but i will admit to not seeing Mk2 escort result against his name in the late 70`s AS mags I am reading
maybe he did buy the walter Robertson escort or maybe the third car the JR built that was pencilled in for Italain owner ( not mainland 1 of the islands possibly Corsica) i will look for my AS notes i made tonight

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Alan the Jag when at AS NEC auction looked VERY tired had hardly any paint on it
is the Cheffins auction car same condition?

Mattie McNamara escort Mk1 i recall him racing early 70`s but i will admit to not seeing Mk2 escort result against his name in the late 70`s AS mags I am reading
maybe he did buy the walter Robertson escort or maybe the third car the JR built that was pencilled in for Italain owner ( not mainland 1 of the islands possibly Corsica) i will look for my AS notes i made tonight

I'll check my race programmes this evening... I've almost everything from The Park in the 1970s and 1980s... and a lot of Mondello too.