Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I just called him about something unrelated and he makes that point too. In fact he told me that another chassis has possibly been found in Europe.

Well I guess there is the chances of that happening when tracing histories of any car so we'd have to be prepared for that when Ken comes forward with info that helps us fill a lot of the gaps. It'll be well worthwhile whatever!

Excellent news about another one of the 20 turning up though, I await further news on that with anticipation.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

When I saw it 005 was in Bastos colours. However a couple of years ago I checked the TT programme and it was a Texaco car that Allam and Hulme drove to victory.

They drove a white 'Istel' one to the '86 win?

[Peter Mallett]

Yep Istel. Where the heck did Texaco come from?

Funny, although I was there but can't remember the car being white.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yep Istel. Where the heck did Texaco come from?

Funny, although I was there but can't remember the car being white.

They did run a white coloured Texaco car in some of the '85 rounds I think? I'm sure it's on the video i've got.

Check out Racing sportscars TT 1986 photos and I think there's a pic of the Istel car in there in parc ferme?

I believe it was one of 2 cars that ran at the '86 Brit GP round and later on in the 2 race Asia Pacific series? Might have the last bit a bit wrong though.

But, and I say it again, the only one of us who's going to confirm this is you know who......

[Peter Mallett]

Schweppes?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Schweppes?

tssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh........ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[John Turner]

Two completely Off Tonic posts there, then!

[Peter Mallett]

Guilty as charged, John. Until someone puts a basic list of where these cars went/may be/ are now, this quest will be stalled.

[terence]

I bthink ots pretty safe to say that ALL of the teams were "at it",howabout taking a common or garden Metalastic suspension bush,cut it in half,install a Rose joint,machine down said metalastic an refit both halves to look just like the original!!=Nissan.There is a huge list ,best we dont go into it just incase it gives anyone any ideas No Mr Mallet,there are no such tricks on my car!!!!!

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Guilty as charged, John.

Peter, I think that you may have missed my poor attempt at humour. Read it .... slowly ..... again!

[ken clarke]

There have been many stories made up about these & many other successful race cars. There were no 7/8ths scale model cars, oversize engines, flat bottomed cars, engine changes in 20 minutes during practice, qualifying cars, etc etc. What there was, was professionally built racing cars with no expense spared. Yes the arches were stretched to accomodate larger wheels & tyres, purpose designed & built front suspension & axles, Getrag gearboxes. All homologated for racing in Group A. Everybody stretched the rules, some got caught others did not. Volvo homologated the Gothenberg Taxi, 240, with a huge turbo & 7 position rear wing. These were allegedly checked by the FIA in America, some on the east coast some on the west, no body saw them being transferred across America. They wer 'offered for sale' as per FIA rules. None were sold so they converted them back to standard cars & sold them on. ???????

The group A cars were new builds, not revamped group 1 cars. All the cars were built from bare shells. The '83 cars (chassis no's 1 to 6) were all primed seam sealed shells which were collected from the production line at Cowley. After this '84 on, the shells were 'body in white' (bare metal), much easier to weld. Chassis numbers 003 & 004 were run with group 1 suspension & axle for the first 4 races because all of the parts were not available to build a full group A car.

I will detail the '83 cars for now. I will not include the history after '83 or after they left TWR or where they are now. Many of the cars you already know the whereabouts of, however their may be some unscrupulous persons out there who may take advantage of those cars whose whereabouts are not known.

1983 cars.

Chassis number,

001. Test & development car. French production championship. Marlboro sponsor. Driver, Rene Metge.

002 Trimoco British Touring Car championship. Selected ETC. TT winner. Hepolite/Glacier sponsor. Driver, Steve Soper & Rene Metge(TT). Built by myself.

003 Trimoco British Touring Car championship. Sanyo sponsor. Driver, Peter Lovett.

004 Trimoco British Touring Car championship. Selected ETC. Sanyo Sponsor. Driver, Jeff Allam.

005 Selected ETC & Belgian Touring Car championship. Left hand drive. Barclay sponsor. Driver, Eddy Joosen. Steve Soper & Rene Metge (Spa 24 hours).

006 Herbie clips rally car. Tom Walkinshaw/ John Davenport. Bianchi Rally.

I will continue further history in due course, (this has just taken me 1.5 hours).

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Peter, I think that you may have missed my poor attempt at humour. Read it .... slowly ..... again!

That's the problem with the hand held. Small print.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by ken clarke

There have been many stories made up about these & many other successful race cars. There were no 7/8ths scale model cars, oversize engines, flat bottomed cars, engine changes in 20 minutes during practice, qualifying cars, etc etc. What there was, was professionally built racing cars with no expense spared. Yes the arches were stretched to accomodate larger wheels & tyres, purpose designed & built front suspension & axles, Getrag gearboxes. All homologated for racing in Group A.

OK, Ken... thanks for bringing us back to reality. This sounds a lot more plausible.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Peter, I think that you may have missed my poor attempt at humour. Read it .... slowly ..... again!

That was very Spritely of you JT!! I had to Lilt my head to one side to get it leading to a trip to see the Doctor Pepper.... Oh dear. I'll leave it at that.

And ken thank you greatly for your time and effort so far on the '83 cars. This is very interesting reading and helps us confirm some things and may even have surprised a few people. Glad to know the odd rally car was included in the chassis chronology though, even though i'm really only a circuit racing fan.

Couple of things though as you have 004 confirmed as an '83 car can you also confirm if it and either of the other BTCC cars 002/003 continued into '84as works cars as David Carvell, a later owner of 004 has said?

We await the early details of the ensuing '84, '85 and '86 chassis with much anticipation!

[mikeg]

Just found this. My Dad was responsible at the Associated Engineering Group for the sponsorship of Steve Soper and the Hepolite/Glacier Rover. As a lad, I hung around the paddocks and remember Ken Clarke.Everything Ken has said has memories for me. Steve introduced Ken as the 'guy who built our car'. That car was the first or one of the first with centre lock hubs - hence Ken's comment about there not being enough parts to go around. TWR may have pushed the boundaries but all the 'bent' stuff is utter rubbish - remember that the ability to protest still existed so the approach was 'hard but fair'. All the guys at TWR were utterly professional - Ken, Big Bob, Eddie Hinckley, Andy Morrison.... There was a slight difference in the relationships though - Jeff Allam and Lovett were contracted to TWR - Steve to ARG - which did lead to some interesting intra-team jostling.

I'm also pals with Richard Potter and it was good to see Dave Carvell in here. Richard later ran Jeff Allam in the Tuscan challenge hence some of the later connections there - Richard arranged some work for Jeff on the car that he bought from the auction of Walkinshaw's stuff.

One thing I haven't seen here is that when TWR started to run 3 Bastos cars, at the first outing at Donington in an ETCC round, Steve had a brake problem at Redgate in practice. The front of the car was destroyed in practice and was simply trailered away and the entry withdrawn. I'm not sure that one would have been rebuilt. Ken C may know....

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome Mike. Yet more interesting stuff.

[ken clarke]

Hi Mike, yes I remember you. Mike Gardner I beleive & your dad Dave. Seems like a long time ago now.

The car Steve put in the wall at Redgate in '85 would have been 008 if my memory serves me correctly. His car, the 2nd car for the '84 season (fleet sponsorship) & the 3rd car for the '85 season. Yes this car was rebuilt & did the remainder of the season, although if I remember correctly Steve did not do too much more of the driving??????? This car went on to do the Nissan Mobil series in New Zealand in 1986. This car was also driven by, Steve & Armin Hahne 1984. Steve, J.L.Schlesser, Marc Duez, Martin Brundle (Spa), Eddy Joosen, Pierre Alain Thibbault & Tom 1985, Tom & Win Nissan Mobil Series '86.

Ken.

[FM77]

A fabulous thread ...and full of great content ..thank you so much ....
Despite the speculation concerning TWR`s efforts....TWR`s racing cars & big Tom Walkinshaw remain an icon and a personal hero of mine...

A great era ....perhaps the 80`s was the best decade for racing ever..

A little reminder of the ETCC action back in 84 & 85 for those not present during that time....a great soundtrack too...( 4 parts... )



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozm2whDhELc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HeUFnwwvE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_-ZCQ7WA0s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=midsRgpu228

[chrisgram]

Oops. Double up.

[chrisgram]

Just picked up a copy of David Adler's book 'Rover SD1 in Motor Sport' but no chance to read it yet. Has anyone else studied this for relevant info? Period is up to 1986 inlc TWR.

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

They did run a white coloured Texaco car in some of the '85 rounds I think? I'm sure it's on the video i've got.

Don't know if this is any help, but 'Car' magazine ran an article on the Bastos Rovers in their December 85 issue, which included a tracktest by Gavin Green, an interview with Walkinshaw and a piece on the preparation of the cars.

The pics included shots of the TWR workshops, showing a lineup of 5 Rovers under preparation- 3 Bastos cars, an unsignwritten Bastos car (I suspect this may be the car Tom drove in a one-off 1985 BTCC outing at Brands?). and a plain white car- could this be the white car you're thinking of?

Originally Posted by chunterer

Check out Racing sportscars TT 1986 photos and I think there's a pic of the Istel car in there in parc ferme?

I believe it was one of 2 cars that ran at the '86 Brit GP round and later on in the 2 race Asia Pacific series? Might have the last bit a bit wrong though.

But, and I say it again, the only one of us who's going to confirm this is you know who......

Didn't the third car (and maybe an occasional fourth car) appear as a 'South Pacific Racing' entry in some of the ETCC rounds in 86 with Australian/NZ drivers on board- (Denny Hulme, Ron Dickson, Neville Crichton and Dave MacMillan from memory). I'm sure I remember seeing pics in Autosport of a car in plain white with 'South Pacific Racing' signwriting- presumably it/they became the 'Herbie Clips' cars at the Brands GP BTCC race and the Allam/Hulme 'Istel' car at the TT

[KA]

There's something else interesting in the 'Car' article- the photos illustrating the track test show a Bastos car without race numbers, but what's odd are the drivers' names signwritten on the car- Win Percy (no surprise) and David Le Grys (who?)

I did a quick Google search and Le Grys is a track cyclist- the pics show a little picture of a man on a bike next to his name on the car.

So what was this about? There's no mention of it in the article as far as I can see, but a bit more searching came up with the answer in a video clip on YouTube- in 1986 Le Grys set a British cycling speed record on an section of the M42, paced by a Bastos Rover with a big aerodynamic screen fitted in place of the hatchback...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmpxJWAJbFM

[Peter Mallett]

TWR helped Le grys go for the world land speed record for cycling. They put a big scoop on the back of the car and ran it up the (then incomplete) M40(?). Le Grys was dragged along by the air pressure behind the car. Not exactly sure if they got the record though.

[davyboy]

Was he tethered to the back of the car ? It would seem dangerous if he was... but probably equally dangerous if he wasn't as hitting a 110mph drag [if he drifted outside the scoop] would be almost like hitting a brick wall.

[Peter Mallett]

Don't think he was tethered. I recall the tv reports but I'm patchy on the details now.

I seem to recall a caravan stunt too.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I seem to recall a caravan stunt too.

Was that a short sprint up a ramp and then jumping over 7 or 8 'Vans'??

Superb stuff on a bicycle??!!!