[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

why would the ACO allow GT2 engines-which are often bigger than LMP2 engines in displacement, and thus have lots more torque even if they make the same power

Homologated engines (i.e., GT2) are limited to 4000 cc in LMP2, at least in 2008.

A quick check:

• RS Spyder 3.4 V8 DFI: 385 Nm
• Porsche 911 GT3 RSR 3.8: 430 Nm

No such a huge difference.

[Hugewally]

The GT2 Porsches are running 4.0L engines now in the ALMS.

[chernaudi]

But will the ACO stick to this, or allow the larger GT2-type engines that are in use now, and likely in the future?

[Hugewally]

Who knows, they're French...

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Who knows, they're French...

Ding DING DING

We have a WINNER . . . .

[JAG]

Check out Mariantics futures section-

2011 P2's will be allowed 8l GT2 engines, though this may change to 5.5l GT2.

P1 will certainly use current P2 race engines, but production engines in P1 seems to be up in the air, will they also use 5.5l GT2 motors, possibly with bigger restrictors?

[gwyllion]

That is one possible interpretation of the ACO annoucement.

Insofar as the LM P1s will use the current LM P2 race engines, we will impose from 2011 onwards (but we wish to encourage them now) the use of LM GT2 engines with the same horsepower ; namely, with the same air restrictors.

The current LMP2 already allow homologated GT2 engines with size up to 4.0 liter. ACO wants to encourage their use for 2009. This makes me believe that in the future the displacement of LMP2 production engines will still be limited to 4.0. It does not make sense if in 2011 LMP1s run a 3.4 V8 while LMP2s can run a 5.5/8.0 engine with a lot more torque and better fuel economy.

[JAG]

IMO, if P2 is going to run GT2 engines exclusively in 2011, the max displacement, whether that be 5.5l or 8l will have to be allowed. Otherwise the field will be limited to Ferrari and Porsche engines, the Chevy/Ford V8 or Viper V10 wouldn't be competative at 4l, and would need to be expensively redesigned, which goes against the cost cutting focus.

The performance of these engines could be limited with smaller restrictors, i.e. 450bhp.

In P1 the 550BHP+ 3.4 V8's and 2l turbo race engines seen to be the only certainties. If a production alternative is offered, it could follow P2 with GT2 engines, but this time with restrictors giving 550BHP+.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by JAG

IMO, if P2 is going to run GT2 engines exclusively in 2011, the max displacement, whether that be 5.5l or 8l will have to be allowed. Otherwise the field will be limited to Ferrari and Porsche engines, the Chevy/Ford V8 or Viper V10 wouldn't be competative at 4l, and would need to be expensively redesigned, which goes against the cost cutting focus.

The performance of these engines could be limited with smaller restrictors, i.e. 450bhp.

I'm still a bit worried if proper balance is maintained between LMP2 and GT1 (or what ever it will be by that time). Like said earlier, imagine a 450bhp LMP2 overtaking a say 600bhp GT1 based on acceleration and corner exit speed, than being overtaken again by the same GT1 car on top speed and finally passing it again on better braking. Those are three overtaking manoeuvres in stead of one all because the top speed of the GT's would be too high compared to the LMP2's. As said I think this will make traffic situations even more complicated.

[gwyllion]

Henri's take on the 2011 rules:

I am reserved. I did not hear about it before the conference and I have the impression that the ACO wants to follow a current fashion, which sees the mass-production cars or F1, for example to reduce the engine displacement. I think that the current LMP1 are not so monstrous. Their current output appears exemplary to me compared to certain disciplines. 50 liters per the 100km for a LMP1, against 8% less for one LMP2, will that change the face of the world? I believe especially that people need to dream. At one time, they fantasized about the limit of the 400km/h. If a spectator will not see a great difference in look between a LMP1 and a LMP2, I see badly how to make he dream with a prototype which will not go more quickly in Hunaudières than certain mass-production cars! I think that attention really should be paid to keep a good weight/power ratio. Once again, I hope simply that the automobile race will remain a true show and not an asepticized spectacle.

translated from http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=6452

[Japanese Samurai]

This is the notice of Toyota's motorsports festival in Japan.
http://www.tmsf.jp/intro/index.html

This notice says in Japanese.

The racing car of the TMSF first appearance is an excitement run in the presence of the fan.
It is a special running that announces a further challenge of Toyota.
If this is motor sports fans, this is must see.

This shape looks like a LMP car, isn't it?

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

This is the notice of Toyota's motorsports festival in Japan.
http://www.tmsf.jp/intro/index.html

This notice says in Japanese.

The racing car of the TMSF first appearance is an excitement run in the presence of the fan.
It is a special running that announces a further challenge of Toyota.
If this is motor sports fans, this is must see.

This shape looks like a LMP car, isn't it?

Certainly does, especially with what looks like a top-mounted air intake like on the Lola B08/60.

The silhouette in the background looks a bit like a NSX, an FIA/ACO spec GT car prehaps?

[AU N EGL]

until there is a REAL picture, I would not get too excited. Heck they could have put a silhouette of a pig with a spoiler on and called it some super duper name, and ppl would get excited.

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by johntt

Certainly does, especially with what looks like a top-mounted air intake like on the Lola B08/60.

The silhouette in the background looks a bit like a NSX, an FIA/ACO spec GT car prehaps?

This festival is Toyota's.
So, only the car of Toyota appears.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

This festival is Toyota's.
So, only the car of Toyota appears.

Sorry, forgot that the NSX was a Honda

Still looks like a GT of some sort.

[FIRE]

I assume it's the Lexus/Toyota SuperGT car for next season.

The car in the front is more interesting. Is the website an official Toyota website? Why a picture of a LMP if they announce (for example) a touring car project?

[Japanese Samurai]

Yes, this homepage is official site by Toyota.
I hope this silhouette car is a new LMP car.
I am wishing that this car not be TS020.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

until there is a REAL picture, I would not get too excited. Heck they could have put a silhouette of a pig with a spoiler on and called it some super duper name, and ppl would get excited.

According to Silverstone paddock rumours (source-Sportscarpros), the Toyota LMP has already tested.

If it's not an LMP, it can only be a new one make sports prototype, they wouldn't put a question mark over an historic Toyota Le Mans car.

[Aslak Vind]

I am told, that the Toyota LMP tested, is a hybrid. I am not sure, how it places Toyotas involvement in the Dome program, apart from a toe in the water.

@ AU N EGL: trust me, Toyota would never fake something like that.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

I am told, that the Toyota LMP tested, is a hybrid. I am not sure, how it places Toyotas involvement in the Dome program, apart from a toe in the water.

@ AU N EGL: trust me, Toyota would never fake something like that.

Lets hope not. But it is silly season.

[JAG]

For manufacturers like Toyota they really have to start pushing the boundaries with hybrids and improving the image. With rising oil prices etc. this technology needs to be rolled out as soon as possible.

[Aslak Vind]

Toyota is the last one, who needs to improve. They ceased the day, when they introduced the Prius. Toyota has been at the forefront of that movement, however not in racing..

But the competitors do have something to prove.

[CTD]

Hmm the Dome do fit well into that silhouette in my mind!. I still strongly believe we will se a Dome Chassis with Toyota Hybrid motor all under the Toyota brand, possibly with Team Goh involved in running the cars!

[zac510]

I don't believe they'd fake it either, but the diagram there is certainly just a hand drawn silhouette not meant to really represent either car.

[Matt]

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...rUrl=Translate

Botched engrish ftw.