’09 ALMS Season Finale • Round 10 • Laguna Seca • Oct. 6th – 11th - Page 10

ztnedman1 · 11 Oct 2009, 19:38 (Ref:2559136)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

If the difference between, being ran down the wall, or wrecked (put into the wall), is not discernible, then there is no sense in having any dialogue about it!

L.P.

IF JORG kept on it in 2007 then HE WOULD have been wrecked. His choice was let off or hit the wall that was coming to him.

If Jan decided to let off it would have been the EXACT same senerio. Minus 2007 was clean the whole way until Ferrari hit Jorg, where as Jan hit Jorg first.

After 2007 I never will blame Jorg punting someone last corner or driving someone into the wall before the line because... apparently, its just good racing.

It has now been proven twice in two years.

Quite frankly I do not like it, even if Porsche was on the better end this time.

ztnedman1 · 11 Oct 2009, 22:22 (Ref:2559245)

THAT WAS 100% exact same senerio as 2007 Sebring but 2007 Jorg let off where here JAN stayed on the throttle. Jan started to push back and spun himself.

Same ruling so atleast officals are consistent, but I do not agree with driving someone into the wall.

cmk · 11 Oct 2009, 22:24 (Ref:2559247)

Well, now that it's been seen on TV, we have a better perspective of the race-ending incident in GT2. One has to say that the #3 was driving hard all day, from the coverage it was the most aggressive car out there in the hands of O'Connell (who had no issue with edging out Westbrook earlier with a little fender) and Magnussen, who definitely laid a fender on #45 a few times before blatantly Jason Plato-ing him in the middle of T11. It was a rough hit along the front straight, but he hit Jorg and Jorg came back at him, playing an understandable game of chicken. Nobody should be driven right into the wall, but people shouldn't be winning on a banzai last-corner bumper tap as blatant as that one either.

At least at Sebring in 07, the two cars were legitimately alongside each other in the final corner...

fieldodreams79 · 11 Oct 2009, 22:29 (Ref:2559249)

just finished watching the replay and have read very little here but WHAT A FINISH.

great to watch de Ferrran and Fernandez duke it out. would not have had it any other way.

as for GT2? WOW.

not a good place to rub there Bergie.
at least Jan gave a bump at a low speed portion of the track.....
great GREAT racing, but that was very uncalled for at the finish line.
glad Jan was OK....big hit!

ztnedman1 · 11 Oct 2009, 22:38 (Ref:2559255)

Berg never ran Jan into the wall though. He just brought him close to it. Jan started to pull ahead, push back at Jorg and spun himself around Jorg's front end.

I dont agree with what he did, but he DID NOT put Jan into the wall, and Jan spun himself by not giving up.

Jorg could have done the same thing in 2007 but he would have hit the tire wall instead which probably would have wrecked Melo too.

Two wrongs dont make a right, but they can bring justice. In Jorg's case the board is clear.

However, while I dont like these two outcomes... it does make FOR SOME EXCITING RACING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even in 2007 when I was ****ED.

porsche91722 · 11 Oct 2009, 22:42 (Ref:2559259)

What a finish to the race and the season. It all comes down to which side of the fence you are from, as to how you see how the GT2 battle ended. Naturally enough I'm happy for the Lizards, but it is up there with the last lap at Sebring, a few years back. Bring on 2010.

arakis · 11 Oct 2009, 22:47 (Ref:2559262)

DAMIT DAMIT I hate Motors tv I have to wait for 7 more days to watch it, plz plz is there a kind soul to post the last gt2 lap on you tube

juicy sushi · 11 Oct 2009, 22:52 (Ref:2559266)

very similar to sebring this year, although a flying lizard didn't go for the ride this time. i think they both should have been dq'd. the corvette for punting in the final turn, and the porsche for trying to run a competitor into the wall. neither move should be tolerated. had the corvette not tried using the pitlane to make the pass 2 laps before then, he'd have had more chances and probably been able to get the pass done without trouble.

it will be interesting to see what 2010 brings, but a packed GT2 grid would make for an excellent season of racing to look forward to...

cmk · 11 Oct 2009, 22:53 (Ref:2559267)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche91722

What a finish to the race and the season. It all comes down to which side of the fence you are from, as to how you see how the GT2 battle ended. Naturally enough I'm happy for the Lizards, but it is up there with the last lap at Sebring, a few years back. Bring on 2010.

Then there are those of us who aren't on any side and can view the whole fair dispassionately. I have a fundamental issue with the type of pass Jan attempted. Low-speed hit to be sure, but a cheapshot which was calculated to take the win without making a legitimate passing move. You make the bed, you lie in it. We've seen a lot of rubbing in GT2 over the years but we've largely avoided that direct front-to-rear straight-on contact which is calcluated to loosen a car up when you can't get close enough to get a wheel inside. And so it should be - GTs aren't the BTCC.

I also agree that Jan could have backed out of it and saved the wreck. In that sense it was like the Porsche/Panoz Sebring incident.

Dead-Eye · 11 Oct 2009, 23:00 (Ref:2559276)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

DAMIT DAMIT I hate Motors tv I have to wait for 7 more days to watch it, plz plz is there a kind soul to post the last gt2 lap on you tube

Here's a bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eigXVl46V_E
Rather useless as it's only the end though.

NightStalk3r · 11 Oct 2009, 23:05 (Ref:2559280)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Here's a bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eigXVl46V_E
Rather useless as it's only the end though.

From that bit it looks to me like Joerg held his line and Jan pulled across to the right and spun himself out.

Infact you can see Joerg's front end push out right before Jan starts spinning from where Jan is pushing on him.

arakis · 11 Oct 2009, 23:07 (Ref:2559283)

THANK YOU Did I see that right, did the crash happen on the straight,
If it did then it has nothing to do with melo/Berg of sebring 2007, Melo hit berg in the corner, here Berg clerly hit the corvette on the straight after the vette was half a car leinght in front, please correct if i amn wromng

cor123 · 11 Oct 2009, 23:09 (Ref:2559285)

I taped the end and watched it over and over. The final hit by Berg was right in Vette's back right side. A cop will tell you that hitting a car there will cause a car to turn sideways and slow down to stop. Unfortunately, in Jan's case, the wall did the stopping. This race was totally exciting from start to finish, in fact, except for the end, I prefer Hindy's radio comments and look forward to the race archive. However, seeing someone almost get killed is not a fun thing to watch. Watching Dale Earnhardt get killed was not fun either.

NightStalk3r · 11 Oct 2009, 23:09 (Ref:2559286)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

THANK YOU Did I see that right, did the crash happen on the straight,
If it did then it has nothing to do with melo/Berg of sebring 2007, Melo hit berg in the corner, here Berg clerly hit the corvette on the straight after the vette was half a car leinght in front, please correct if i amn wromng

I guess you should go watch Sebring 07 Again, Melo was pushing Bergmiester out to the wall all the way to the finnish line.

NightStalk3r · 11 Oct 2009, 23:11 (Ref:2559290)

But at the end of it all i hope the Corvette boy's go away from this and stop driving like yobs like they have done since they joined GT2.

arakis · 11 Oct 2009, 23:14 (Ref:2559291)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

But at the end of it all i hope the Corvette boy's go away from this and stop driving like yobs like they have done since they joined GT2.

broadrun96 · 11 Oct 2009, 23:28 (Ref:2559306)

Anybody know how before RLM will post the race archive? Would like to be able to download it tonite or early tomorrow morning.

Gliding_Serpent · 11 Oct 2009, 23:52 (Ref:2559318)

They may pipe up themselves... but someone at the race mentioned that they were about 10feet from the incident. They thought the vette hit the inside wall... but checked again later and saw no vette marks on the wall.

I am siding with the opinion that the 45 did indeed retaliate for an initial blatant hit (loved how the announcers called it before it happened on TV) and crowded the vette into the wall... then there was some bump and grind... but in the end the 45 held it's line... the Vette pushed on the 45 and spun itself.

I will watch some more.

HORNDAWG · 12 Oct 2009, 00:00 (Ref:2559322)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

From that bit it looks to me like Joerg held his line and Jan pulled across to the right and spun himself out.

Infact you can see Joerg's front end push out right before Jan starts spinning from where Jan is pushing on him.

I guess we watched different races!

@cmk, Jörg put Jan in the dirt several times while Jan tried to go around the outside to pass. Jörg initiated a lot of contact in blocking Jan from passing. Turn 11 is the only spot where I saw Jan put it to Jörg, after getting it many times from him. Jan even went as far as going into the pit-out lane to avoid contacting Jörg while getting by and consequently had to give it back for cutting the track.

The wreck was caused by contact from the front of the Porsche to the rear of the Corvette, Jörg wrecked Mags!!

L.P.

ztnedman1 · 12 Oct 2009, 00:26 (Ref:2559337)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I guess we watched different races!

@cmk, Jörg put Jan in the dirt several times while Jan tried to go around the outside to pass. Jörg initiated a lot of contact in blocking Jan from passing. Turn 11 is the only spot where I saw Jan put it to Jörg, after getting it many times from him. Jan even went as far as going into the pit-out lane to avoid contacting Jörg while getting by and consequently had to give it back for cutting the track.

The wreck was caused by contact from the front of the Porsche to the rear of the Corvette, Jörg wrecked Mags!!

L.P.

LOL @ going to pit out lane to AVOID contact??!?!?!?!?!??!?!

He was a car length behind him BEFORE pit out, then cut the corner flat out.

Had to give it back because.... you guessed it. HE CUT THE CORNER. He could have gone outside AGAIN but he couldnt make the pass because Jorg was driving a defensive line, so he tried going inside, which wasnt available so he went to pit out which IS NOT PART OF THE TRACK.

Jorg initiated NO contact(until last stright) he was driving the defensive line the whole time. Turn 2 Jan got sideways after bumping Jorg, that was the dirt you saw getting kicked up. Jorg wasnt driving him into the dirt like Jan did to the #18 an hour earlier.

Unfortunatly for Corvette, I think Jan had the race if he didn't get so agressive and try to cut through the pit out lane. He had a great run on him and I think could have made the pass in turn 2, or atleast been in position to take the inside line @ turns 3/4.

fieldodreams79 · 12 Oct 2009, 00:30 (Ref:2559340)

i'm really confused how some feel Jan wrecked himself...Jorg made sure that if he didn't put him into one wall, he put him into the other.

Gliding_Serpent · 12 Oct 2009, 00:34 (Ref:2559343)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

The wreck was caused by contact from the front of the Porsche to the rear of the Corvette

L.P.

Agreed. Now we have a chicken and egg scenario. Rear of vette to front of porsche, or front of porsche to rear of vette?

Where is the helicopter cam when we need it?

Gliding_Serpent · 12 Oct 2009, 01:05 (Ref:2559359)

last lap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CBeuoJmZ7g

**joeb** · 12 Oct 2009, 01:43 (Ref:2559382)

Great race. However there was more contact than usual. I was very disappointed to see the #6 and #88 go off early. I was hoping the see the Drayson car racing all day. Also the #6 has shown speed all year, but has always made a mistake somewhere.

The move of the race in my opinion was the last pit sequence when the 66 didn't take tires and the 15 did. That was the race right there. Earlier in the season the 15 skipped tires to come out of the pits ahead of the competition, but not this week. Good send off for Gil

NightStalk3r · 12 Oct 2009, 02:08 (Ref:2559397)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

i'm really confused how some feel Jan wrecked himself...Jorg made sure that if he didn't put him into one wall, he put him into the other.

Because you can see the front end of the 45 wash out to the right BEFORE Jan spins, that would only happen if Jan was leaning on Jeorg.

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