Historic Racers In Europe - Carnet Requirements?

[Peter H]

No, not at all. Thank you for your post. I suspect that Continental racers are as much in the dark about Temp Import Procedures as we are (were). Certainly the ones I know were.

[Gerard C]

Fine Peter its a relief I really had no bad intention glad you see no offense. I realized too late that the word legalist was somewhat inappropriate.

In the dark, for sure! And the "nothing to declare" lane is puzzling depending on you had labour, parts or both! And till now when we've troubles they always come from the french customs dpt…

[Paul D]

For the last 30+ years, I've had some Japanese people who come over sporadically to compete in stage rallies here. They always ship their Minis from Japan, and we've always brought them in on a temporary import arrangement which allows for them to remain here for upto six months. In fact, until around 10 or 12 years ago, the process was so simple that I didn't even bother involving a customs clearance agent - I just used to get the forms cleared & stamped at the customs office at the port and that was it, free to go! Then there seemed to be a change of attitude, and it became clear that they only wanted 'officials' involved in the process so we had to start using an agent.

Not once in all those years have we used, or felt the need, to do it via a carnet. But it's only just occurred to me that, now we're no longer part of the EC, it's probably exactly the same rules to move cars between here and mainland Europe as it is to move them between here & Japan. And if that's true, then it would seem to suggest that a carnet is definitely not required.

I guess the biggest difference is in the way the cars arrive & leave. The cars from Japan arrive in containers at ports used to dealing with containerised goods, and perhaps the customs guys at these places are clued up on exactly what's required, document-wise. Whereas the cars traversing between here & Europe are generally on trailers being driven on & off ferries, and the officials at those places have only had to start dealing with this stuff a couple of years ago since Brexit? Could it just be that they haven't got to grips fully with the rules yet?

[midgetman]

I'll be honest, I was of the opinion from postings on here that nothing much had changed lately. People seem to just rock up and travel with trailers. Is this more for commercial crossing?

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[Peter H]

No! If a non-registered car (V5 or EU equivalent), best to get the C&E1246 form for U.K. cars (INF3 if an EU car coming to the UK) stamped on the outward journey to avoid possible issues upon return. Obviously you can risk it if you wish……..

[midgetman]

Thank you Peter, obviously I jumped to the wrong conclusion. It's such a pain isn't it? I was hoping to get the guys testing in Spain or Italy this year, but I think we'll give it a miss. Too much like hard work for the rewards!

Another good thing in life disappearing. Not much left to enjoy these days!



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[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Not much left to enjoy these days!

Been married for a long time? OK, I leave…

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Been married for a long time? OK, I leave…

We say "I'll get me coat"



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[Malcolm Smith]

Peter H: many thanks for the very helpful guide.

It can be viewed on HGPCA website:
http://www.hgpca.com/images/2023_DOC...T_PAPER_V6.pdf

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by Peter H

Dear all, I have done some work on this and I have sent to Carol Spagg of HMRN version 5 of my report. She is publishing it. I am also in contact and liaising with MS U.K. In summary, no-one needs carnets. At all.

Outward from U.K. to EU to do a race, get C&E1246 form stamped by U.K. customs and drive straight through French Customs. Technically what is happening is that you are claiming Temporary Importation Relief ‘by conduct’ under the sports good exemption. Upon return, drop by U.K. customs to give them the stamped C&E 1246 form (returned goods relief form).

Freight carriers do the same except enter ‘temporary importation relief’ when applying for your GMR reference. There is a case for freight not to make a ‘by conduct’ declaration but instead make an oral declaration at the French point of entry with completed Annex 71-01 form.

EU people coming to the U.K. for a race, complete INF3 form to present to French customs (equivalent to the UK’s C&E1246 form), and make a ‘by conduct’ declaration when passing U.K. customs ie simply drive straight though with no stopping of forms.

Upon return to the EU, present the INF3 form to French customs.

For full details, see my paper with important background information and cross references to specific EU Regulations, required forms and HMRC Guidance Notes (which were updated on 10 March 2023 following pressure from us to specifically refer to the Sports Goods category of the Temporary Importation Procedures).

This is been tested last year by an HGPCA member with an unregistered single seater race car (ie, not a means of transportation). All worked. Also, I have spoken with U.K. BorderForce and Customs officials.

Read my report and feel free to ask questions.

Could I pass on my thanks to Peter H for putting the above - as someone on the inky end of a date stamp, I was able to point my colleagues in Essex to this post to help out a couple of drivers who'd turned up with race cars in tow heading outbound.

One quick download, a few minutes filling out the form and they were good to go - or at least I hope so as we didn't hear back from Essex.

[MGDavid]

Just had the following from a pal with a road registered FIA MGB going to Portimao -
'Hi David. Absolutely zero problems at Spanish customs in Santander. They didn’t even stop me to ask what was in the trailer. Just waved me straight through after showing passports.'

[rww]

I'm not sure if Oct 2023 marked a change for French customs but a CSCC member was charged 300 Euros this morning at Calais as he exited the Shuttle on his way to Spa. He was told by the customs officials that he needed a temporary export permit. He was trailering a road legal race car and was one of 8 - 10 competitors stopped and checked.

Peter Horsman's Guidance doc. has now been referenced on the Facebook CSCC Swinging Sixties page ( a private group) where the above information came from.

[Matt Cake]

Hi all We have travelled to Europe twice this year with no Carnet with no problems.
All we did was take all docs required and an invitation from the organisers of the event.

[rww]

Originally Posted by Matt Cake

Hi all We have travelled to Europe twice this year with no Carnet with no problems.
All we did was take all docs required and an invitation from the organisers of the event.

Hi Matt,

Have sent you a message.

Cheers, R

[Peter J Horsman]

The CSCC guy did not need a permit. The rules for Temporary Importation Procedures have not altered. I cannot access the CSCC facebook site and so am unable to comment on the specific, but I would ask, did the importer explain to the EU Customs guy (nicely!) what he was doing and his regulatory authority for doing so, as clearly set out in my advice notes. I would guess not and so this once again confirms my advice that people should read and understand the broad thrust of the Rules as set out in my notes and have them available if challenged by officials.

A breaking piece of good news: HMRC International Trade group advised me in writing that there was a need for a completed C&E1246 form to pass to the C&E on the return trip. I took this point to high-up HMRC Policy division guys who have recently advised me that this form/procedure is neither necessary nor designed for returning UK competition cars (and for what it's worth, I agree with them) and, in fact, no form is required at all to claim 're-importation relief'. You just return to the UK and drive straight through the UK customs point effectively claiming the relief on a 'by conduct declaration' basis. I am trying to get written confirmation of this before spreading the news 'far and wide'. If challenged, you simply have to explain to them that the car was in the UK and was temporarily exported to the EU for sporting purposes.

In concluding, UK HGPCA members exporting their own cars to the EU without Carnets have had no problems at all and are presently in Spain/Portugal!

Happy racing!

[Peter J Horsman]

Originally Posted by Matt Cake

Hi all We have travelled to Europe twice this year with no Carnet with no problems.
All we did was take all docs required and an invitation from the organisers of the event.

Well done, Matt!!

[Tel 911S]

It looks like the Schengen agreement borders scheme is falling apart from all of the migration across Europe . And border controls are coming back between countries .https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-schengen-zone

I dont know how this will affect racers travelling to Europe , but I can remember having to do 2 Carnets at each crossing in the old days .

Possibly it might only apply to people and not any cars / parts carried .

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Smith

Peter H: many thanks for the very helpful guide.

It can be viewed on HGPCA website:
http://www.hgpca.com/images/2023_DOC...T_PAPER_V6.pdf

The link is now returning Error 404 Page not found.
Anyone know where it's gone please?

[delta]

Just rolled across on my way to Spa . Nobody is interested .

[PeterY]

i took my car to Spa towing a decent size covered trailer with a van via euro tunnel and didn't get stopped on the way out not even a question to what i was carrying.
On the way back i had to open up for checks at the port but i think that was more for stowaways as not even a mention to what i was carrying.

[bauble]

I

[bauble]

Removed a mis posted post, oops.