[WEC] Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by anthonyvop

If it is even 1/2 as good looking as this Porsche I will be happy

I agree ..... but the whingers here will vote for a Coupe , cuz its safer !!!

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Nobody made their chassis more available than Porsche , which also led to the demise of group C , cuz the others wouldnt supply the machinery .

Porsche have done tenfold more for sporstcar racing than anyone else ..... not through charity ..... but because of good , solid business sense .

They have made more money from GT2 , than Group C ever did .

I agree, they made it because it made sense for them (especially financially).

I´m sure happy they´re coming back but some Porsche fans act like we should fall on our knees thanking Porsche for blessing us with their presence

[AGD]

Originally Posted by arakis

18 years of absanece is the reason i said what i did

Porsche did design a LMP1 that would have replaced the GT1, but they did not run it for whatever reason. Some say that Audi asked them not to run it. Who knows. Perhaps Porsche would have won 10+ more overall wins at Le Mans by now had Audi decided not to go Le Mans racing, but who knows.

As far as loyalty goes, it's a business for everyone. I think successful participation at Le Mans has done a lot to build the Porsche brand (EDIT: Oops, I actually said Porsche has done a lot to build the Porsche brand - I think that is pretty obvious!). With that, it's not surprising that Porsche would want to come back to compete for overall wins.

[The Badger]

Porsche have announced that they will return to their stomping ground ..... why shouldt we be delighted ?

Dont even bother answering that .......................

[cdsvg]

What is the status of Dumas and Bernhard in terms of contracts with Audi/Porsche? I believe they are still officially Porsche works drivers but surely Audi will be wanting to try to hold on to them past 2014. If they cant, Audi have a lot of new seats to fill (assuming they stay involved after 2013).

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by cdsavage

What is the status of Dumas and Bernhard in terms of contracts with Audi/Porsche? I believe they are still officially Porsche works drivers but surely Audi will be wanting to try to hold on to them past 2014. If they cant, Audi have a lot of new seats to fill (assuming they stay involved after 2013).

Both have Porsche works contracts

[CTD]

Why do people keeps mentioning the 16years!?.
Porsche hasn't been away from Le Mans in 16years. They have raced both GT2 and a very successful LMP2!

The LMP900 2000 car was cancelled by some reason, that reason wont go away for a few years. Then the Spyder came, raced for 5 years, and now in 2011, they announce a LMP1 program again.
In my mind it proves that Porsche has tried different strategies, and having success in all of them, and therefor feel that the time has come to take on overall honours.

Arakis and Acid, do you really believe that Porsche can afford keeping a top running team at Le Mans for ever?.
Everybody need breakes, Porsche has taken theirs, and for crying out loud, be happy that they are back, instead of giving them sh*t about the LMP1 break. (This was mostly aimed at Arakis)

[arakis]

Originally Posted by CTD

Arakis and Acid, do you really believe that Porsche can afford keeping a top running team at Le Mans for ever?.

And why not, Ferrari has been in F1 since its inseption, or simply put for ever, as put before it had a hell off a dry spell but they never quit. and it was and is more expensive to run a F1 program then a LMP1.

Although i do see that they wanted to be independant. but as soon as VW bought them they are back .

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by arakis

And why not, Ferrari has been in F1 since its inseption, or simply put for ever, as put before it had a hell off a dry spell but they never quit. and it was and is more expensive to run a F1 program then a LMP1

Ferrari and Marlboro.......Even though F1 cost money.......Theres is a large end of the year payout.......Not to mention the multimillion dollar sponsorsip from marlboro....Thats what keeps ferrari going....

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

Ferrari and Marlboro.......Even though F1 cost money.......Theres is a large end of the year payout.......Not to mention the multimillion dollar sponsorsip from marlboro....Thats what keeps ferrari going....

well not really through the tough years in the 80s, when ferrari was sold to FIAT. so I see how if porsche wanted to stay independant they had to abanton costly LMP projects, but now that they are VW they could stay in lmp1 for ever.

[TF110]

Porsche makes a lot of money. Just recently it was discussed if Porsche would be the lead company, and not VW. They've had the money to go LMP1 for a while. I think Audi being there was sort of a give away. Why run against someone in the same auto group? Let them have their 'limelight' then we'll come back and it'll be a two for one with both of our cars. Diesel has been brought to life- awesome for VW group. Now it's time for Hybrid to be brought to life with Porsche- awesome again! As much as it's pride, it's about auto sales and image as well.

[Asa]

I just hope that Audi won't move out of the way to let Porsche win like it did for sister company Bentley.

Also hoping that Maserati will join LMP1 racing. IIRC, Luca di Montezemolo once said Porsche is Maserati's direct competitor in the market. Now Maserati has no racing programme and designer Aldo Costa is available after being released from Ferrari's F1 team. Time for Maserati to come to Le Mans.

[chernaudi]

Marshall Pruett was just on Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain, and here's the major points in that interview:

1-Porsche seem to have an idea what the proposed 2014 rules may be, and it seems to be slanted towards cars that are slightly slower and notably cheaper than the current likes of the Audi R18 and Peugeot 908.

2-To add to that, it'll likely be a heavily customer based program, due to Porsche's history of selling cars to semi works and private teams.

3-As has been mentioned, Audi and the rest of VAG had no direct part in the program, at least thus far. Audi and VAG also didn't have any direct part in the start of this intended program. Also, Audi may or may not collaborate with Porsche in any way for this program.

And 4-It'll likely be a hybrid. With Porsche working on the hybrid technology, rumors that Peugeot's 908 successor may be a hybrid electric with a gasoline engine, and with the Audi R18 and Peugeot 908 being diesel electric hybrids starting at season's end, and with the success that the 911 GT3 Hybrid has had, there's no reason to see why Porsche can't or won't run a hybrid.

Basically, Porsche's desire to sell customer cars, make the racing a bit more affordable, and the green racing push have combined to make Porsche pull the trigger on getting their letter of intent out there, though Le Mans 2014 is three years away, and who knows what'll happen within that time frame.

[JAG]

If, but, maybe.........speculation.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Marshall Pruett was just on Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain, and here's the major points in that interview:

1-Porsche seem to have an idea what the proposed 2014 rules may be, and it seems to be slanted towards cars that are slightly slower and notably cheaper than the current likes of the Audi R18 and Peugeot 908.

This is not so hard to figure out as the ACO have stressed the need to keep times above the 3:30/lap time range.
The "cheaper" part is a general consensus that everyone talks about, but then hardly ever gets implemented. Hybrids are not cheap to run at the moment. Lets see in a couple of years time.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

2-To add to that, it'll likely be a heavily customer based program, due to Porsche's history of selling cars to semi works and private teams.

I'm not sure that this will be the case initially. Much will depend on the costs and the level of technical expertise required to run the Hybrids. I suspect that the program will resemble the first years of the RS Spyder program...at least at first.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

3-As has been mentioned, Audi and the rest of VAG had no direct part in the program, at least thus far. Audi and VAG also didn't have any direct part in the start of this intended program. Also, Audi may or may not collaborate with Porsche in any way for this program.

The Porsche Supervisory Board (that I assume approved such a project) have the following members:
Dr. Wolfgang Porsche -Chairman
Uwe Hück- Deputy
Prof. Dr. Ferdinand K. Piëch
Dr. Ferdinand Oliver Porsche, Hans-Peter Porsche, and Dr. Hans Michel Piëch
New Members of the Board are Prof. Dr. Martin Winterkorn, Chairman of the Board of Management of Volkswagen AG and the Chairman of the Board of Management of Porsche Automobil Holding SE, Hans Dieter Pötsch, Member of the Board of Management of Volkswagen AG and Member of the Board of Management of Porsche Automobil Holding SE, Dr. Francisco Javier Garcia Sanz, Member of the Board of Management of Volkswagen AG, Christian Klingler, Member of the Board of Management of Volkswagen AG, and Prof. Dr. Horst Neumann, Member of the Board of Management of Volkswagen AG.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And 4-It'll likely be a hybrid. With Porsche working on the hybrid technology, rumors that Peugeot's 908 successor may be a hybrid electric with a gasoline engine, and with the Audi R18 and Peugeot 908 being diesel electric hybrids starting at season's end, and with the success that the 911 GT3 Hybrid has had, there's no reason to see why Porsche can't or won't run a hybrid.

I would go so far as to say that it will most certainly be a hybrid. No if's, and's or but's.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Basically, Porsche's desire to sell customer cars, make the racing a bit more affordable, and the green racing push have combined to make Porsche pull the trigger on getting their letter of intent out there, though Le Mans 2014 is three years away, and who knows what'll happen within that time frame.

Indeed , much water can flow under the bridge. It will be a shame if they have the car built and ready for testing, and then the project gets cancelled to to extenuating circumstances.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Indeed , much water can flow under the bridge. It will be a shame if they have the car built and ready for testing, and then the project gets cancelled to to extenuating circumstances.

If that happens I fear mass suicide from some people on this board will folow.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by arakis

If that happens I fear mass suicide from some people on this board will folow.

Well, it wont be the first time, and they sure seem alive to me .

[JAG]

If you scroll down, you'll see the minutes for the 2014 LMP regs meeting last June.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjuly10.html

Basically, P1 will focus on efficiency, with a weight reduction to 775kg, a possibility all cars will be coupes, hybrid technology.

P2 will remain as is, all cars may be open.

[Spyderman]

I wonder if the 918 RSR program will ever get off the ground (next year as previously expected) in order to serve as a lab platform for the future LMP1 car?
Although Porsche have gained much experience with the hybrid system in the GT3 R, they have not yet gained experience with the system on a purpose built platform.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Spyderman
I wonder if the 918 RSR program will ever get off the ground (next year as previously expected) in order to serve as a lab platform for the future LMP1 car?
Although Porsche have gained much experience with the hybrid system in the GT3 R, they have not yet gained experience with the system on a purpose built platform.

If the engine of the future LMP1 will be the 3.4 V8, maybe will use the 918 RSR in GTE and start now with the engine development. In 2014 only enlarge the restrictor.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

If the engine of the future LMP1 will be the 3.4 V8, maybe will use the 918 RSR in GTE and start now with the engine development. In 2014 only enlarge the restrictor.

It depends on the kind of engine that goes in the 918 RSR. If its a heavy road car engine they probably won;t use it, but if it;s some kind of experimental race engine then they might try this...though they'd have to sell that race engine in order to be allowed to run in GTE.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

It depends on the kind of engine that goes in the 918 RSR. If its a heavy road car engine they probably won;t use it, but if it;s some kind of experimental race engine then they might try this...though they'd have to sell that race engine in order to be allowed to run in GTE.

918 RSR uses spyders V8 IIRC

[TF110]

775kg with the hybrid power and they expect the cars to be slower? Who're they kidding? You lose over 10% of your weight, to be slower you'd have to lose some good hp as well. What're they going to cut aero as well? I don't see the reason to 'slow' the cars down. P2 cars weren't far off 3:30 last year. I guess we'll see soon.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by TF110

775kg with the hybrid power and they expect the cars to be slower? Who're they kidding? You lose over 10% of your weight, to be slower you'd have to lose some good hp as well. What're they going to cut aero as well? I don't see the reason to 'slow' the cars down. P2 cars weren't far off 3:30 last year. I guess we'll see soon.

exactly lol. they'res no reason to slow the cars.....Is the ACO trying to get me to watch Formula one?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by TF110

775kg with the hybrid power and they expect the cars to be slower? Who're they kidding? You lose over 10% of your weight, to be slower you'd have to lose some good hp as well. What're they going to cut aero as well? I don't see the reason to 'slow' the cars down. P2 cars weren't far off 3:30 last year. I guess we'll see soon.

Gotta find a way to make the Delta Wing competitive.