Gilbert the Gilbern - The Ongoing Story

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Crow

Not hard to see why. No safety fences, no gravel, no run offs, no boring one make races, no aero, no track limits, no red flags, no safety cars. Cars you could actually see driven by drivers you could actually see. At prices you could afford.

This makes sense to say the least. Real enthousiasts dont care one make grids its only for people looking for rubbin' racing.
Re the Chevy Gilbern, I dont think its more a handful in the wet than a TVR Grif can be. Our 67 'Vette was rather user friendly in spite of the 600 and more poneys under the hood. Plus some others under the bonnet! Ha ha ha.

[MikeL]

The Chevy GT was hand painted by a previous owner, 20+ years ago, removal of the rear number plate has revealed the original colour, which I will match.

Evidence of Gilbern factory improvisation include wooden wedges keeping the dash square! I would like to retain some original trim, but it is all pretty far gone.

[grantp]

"I would like to retain some original trim, but it is all pretty far gone."

Craig, the interiors chap at Iain Tyrrell's place, might know how to revive the trim.

However, it might not be cost-effective for a non-exotic brand name.

[MikeL]

Originally Posted by grantp

"I would like to retain some original trim, but it is all pretty far gone."

Craig, the interiors chap at Iain Tyrrell's place, might know how to revive the trim.

However, it might not be cost-effective for a non-exotic brand name.

The dash is good but will need to be adapted around a cage. Door cards are OK, I will clean and retain. The carpet is incomplete and poor but I might be able to save part. The headlining is torn and incomplete. There were no exotic brands on a Gilbern!

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by MikeL

Evidence of Gilbern factory improvisation include wooden wedges keeping the dash square! I would like to retain some original trim, but it is all pretty far gone.

Your dash pics makes me think about mates wanting to build a new DB, Deutsch-Bonnet, HBR 5. All the bodies they found were twisted the same way by about two inches. It took ages and a Sherlock type investigation to find and ask an ex mechanic why. The answer came after several beers: just after demoldiing the new bodies were stored on the side in a narrow corridor of the "factory". They then dried out like that…

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Your dash pics makes me think about mates wanting to build a new DB, Deutsch-Bonnet, HBR 5. All the bodies they found were twisted the same way by about two inches. It took ages and a Sherlock type investigation to find and ask an ex mechanic why. The answer came after several beers: just after demoldiing the new bodies were stored on the side in a narrow corridor of the "factory". They then dried out like that…

That would be necessary continuity to retain ISO9000 operating standards for consistent methods and results!

Great story.

It reminds me of a tale about a Mk2 Cortina sold new in the north of England.

The owner complained of inconsistent steering, notably that it was difficult to get around roundabouts.

The dealer spent hours over several months trying to find a problem but eveything checked out within tolerances.

Finally, someone took a wider view and realised that the tolerances permitted were extremely tolerant (i.e. quite large numbers) and that on that particular car, they had built up all one way on the front suspension and all the other way on the rear. So it was running about 2 inches (5cm) out of alignment.

Presumably there were a number of other cars coming off the production lines in those times that were similarly compromised but went unnoticed at the time.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by grantp

That would be necessary continuity to retain ISO9000 operating standards for consistent methods and results!

Great story.

It reminds me of a tale about a Mk2 Cortina sold new in the north of England.

The owner complained of inconsistent steering, notably that it was difficult to get around roundabouts.

The dealer spent hours over several months trying to find a problem but eveything checked out within tolerances.

Finally, someone took a wider view and realised that the tolerances permitted were extremely tolerant (i.e. quite large numbers) and that on that particular car, they had built up all one way on the front suspension and all the other way on the rear. So it was running about 2 inches (5cm) out of alignment.

Presumably there were a number of other cars coming off the production lines in those times that were similarly compromised but went unnoticed at the time.

That story reminds me of a couple of new Ford Orion's that a friend bought for his car-hire business back in the 1990's. They both had steering that reacted differently whether you turned to the left or right.

When one went for it's first service to the supplying dealer (Tony Brooks's garage) my friend commented on it. The garage response? They tried a few other Orion's they had in stock & said they were all the same!

[Mike Harte]

Talking about quirks during the production of cars, during the 60s my business partner bought a brand new Mk2 Jag from a main dealer. When he took delivery, he found that the rear nearside carpet didn't fit properly, so the dealer arranged that it would be dealt with during the first service.

When he picked it up after that service, he found that all they had done was to try to stretch it to fit, but it still wasn't right and appeared to have a "hump" in the middle, so he left it at the garage to properly deal with it.

It transpired that prior to the shell being painted at the factory that one of the workers there had left his sandwiches on the rear floor and they hadn't been noticed and they had been painted over. And they hadn't bothered to find out why the carpet didn't fit before sending it to the dealer!

The postscript to this saga is that my partner who could certainly be a quite bolshy at times, decided that as he personally knew William Lyons, who was still the boss at Jaguar at the time, he wrote to him about the matter. Without an acknowledgement of the letter, a few days later a car transporter arrived at our factory with another brand new Mk2 on the back which Lyons had arranged to be swapped with the one with an ill-fitting carpet. Can you imagine that happening nowadays?

[Mike Harte]

A problem that Toyota encountered during the 70s and 80s was that many of the cars shipped from Japan arrived at there destination with their geometry out which was caused by over zealous chaining on the ships. This caused excessive wear on the inners or outers of tyres, both front and rear.

[delta]

Thanks for the updates Mike.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Talking about quirks during the production of cars, during the 60s my business partner bought a brand new Mk2 Jag from a main dealer. When he took delivery, he found that the rear nearside carpet didn't fit properly, so the dealer arranged that it would be dealt with during the first service.

When he picked it up after that service, he found that all they had done was to try to stretch it to fit, but it still wasn't right and appeared to have a "hump" in the middle, so he left it at the garage to properly deal with it.

It transpired that prior to the shell being painted at the factory that one of the workers there had left his sandwiches on the rear floor and they hadn't been noticed and they had been painted over. And they hadn't bothered to find out why the carpet didn't fit before sending it to the dealer!

The postscript to this saga is that my partner who could certainly be a quite bolshy at times, decided that as he personally knew William Lyons, who was still the boss at Jaguar at the time, he wrote to him about the matter. Without an acknowledgement of the letter, a few days later a car transporter arrived at our factory with another brand new Mk2 on the back which Lyons had arranged to be swapped with the one with an ill-fitting carpet. Can you imagine that happening nowadays?

Great story!

Yes, I can image that happening these days, sort of. But only because of the personal contact angle and even then only for a very limited number of people.

Not the bit about the sandwiches though. I doubt the workers get time on the line to even contemplate bothering to take food in to the work area.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by MikeL

The dash is good but will need to be adapted around a cage. Door cards are OK, I will clean and retain. The carpet is incomplete and poor but I might be able to save part. The headlining is torn and incomplete. There were no exotic brands on a Gilbern!

The Retropower team have been working with a Jensen CV8 for a year or so with a view to creating a Carbon Bodied version.

To do that they are creating a mould for easy replication based mainly on the original body with some styling changes and, more significantly, bodywork and chassis changes to allow them to make new panels that are consistent in fit and finish.

It seems that the originals were truly handmade, as were many of the component parts throughout the car. And then a lot of creative ingenuity was used to make things look about right when they were put together.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by grantp

The Retropower team have been working with a Jensen CV8 for a year or so with a view to creating a Carbon Bodied version.

To do that they are creating a mould for easy replication based mainly on the original body with some styling changes and, more significantly, bodywork and chassis changes to allow them to make new panels that are consistent in fit and finish.

It seems that the originals were truly handmade, as were many of the component parts throughout the car. And then a lot of creative ingenuity was used to make things look about right when they were put together.

Watching the Retropower video's on YouTube is one of my guilty pleasures. I find it fascinating to see the lengths that they go to, while at the some time wondering to myself "Just how much money is this all costing?"

[grantp]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I find it fascinating to see the lengths that they go to, while at the some time wondering to myself "Just how much money is this all costing?"

You know I suspect if they were to go into, say, housebuilding, the cost of a regular 3 bed detached would be about £1.5 million even in a low cost area.

No doubt fantastic quality and superbly constructed and probably built to last millennia but with a very select potential customer base addressed.

As for the cars, can you image the trauma of a door ding inflicted on a highly specific piece of complex metalwork? I doubt PDR would be sufficient to make it look right once again.

[MikeL]

Work continues on the Chevy GT, a couple of issues that made me smile this weekend. Trim packing pieces, off-cuts from a carton (brand ?) and the drilled out brake pedal concealed by a rubber cover, not exactly a substantial weight saving!

[Mike Harte]

Something in the back of my mind says that it could be Quinton Hazell, who supplied things like clutch linings.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Something in the back of my mind says that it could be Quinton Hazell, who supplied things like clutch linings.

Thanks for that Mike, I knew the logo looked familiar and although it looks like a lion I knew it wasn't Peugeot...

[Gerard C]

MikeL with a brake pedal that far from the gas one, it wont be easy to make a double de-clutch, something we call talon-pointe, unless the size of your shoes is far beyond 12!



Viva, you're right, Peugeot's lion lost his teeth a while ago, when the brand was involved in dentists accessories… Note that bikes, scooters, ground pepper and salt shaker seem better than cars.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Something in the back of my mind says that it could be Quinton Hazell, who supplied things like clutch linings.

Im pretty sure the Quinton Hazell logo was a dragon.... IIRC they were originally a Welsh company.

[grantp]

Re the lion rampant logo packaging.

The logo with the torch included has the word Lucas under the lion - though one has to enlarge the pic a bit to spot it cleanly.

ETA - more specifically, Lucas TVS which seems to be some sort of electrical business with most of the links that come up on Google (so far) indicating a connection to India.

https://www.lucas-tvs.com/

[E.B]

Originally Posted by E.B

Im pretty sure the Quinton Hazell logo was a dragon.... IIRC they were originally a Welsh company.

We can officially say its not QH.....



They were a Welsh company:

In February (2013), there was anger and sadness after 83 employees lost their jobs when Quinton Hazell Automotive in Mochdre closed.

The name Quinton Hazell however has gone from North Wales because a Wigan firm has bought the name, known as its intellectual property rights.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business...hazell-5074011

[Mike Harte]

Well done Chris and Grant for your detective work. The little grey cells don't perform as well as they once did - well, that's my excuse, anyway. But at least I remembered a name from the long gone past (more than 50 years), and recalled that it had an animal (if one can call a dragon one) on it's packaging.

[MikeL]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

MikeL with a brake pedal that far from the gas one, it wont be easy to make a double de-clutch, something we call talon-pointe, unless the size of your shoes is far beyond 12!



Viva, you're right, Peugeot's lion lost his teeth a while ago, when the brand was involved in dentists accessories… Note that bikes, scooters, ground pepper and salt shaker seem better than cars.

The footwell picture gives a deceptive image of the scale, it is a lot narrower than you would expect. The brake pedal measure approx. 30mm x 40mm. To the left of the clutch pedal someone has increased the width, I guess this relates to when it was running a twin cam, I will need to put this back to original to give any hope of getting the exhaust manifold on, even then it will be very tight. The pedal spacing in a standard GT is narrow, as this picture of my other GT shows, the Chevy footwell is more so.

[Gerard C]

The most important pedal is located on the right, right? My 'Vette had a big block and both the manifolds an side exhaust used to spread a lot of heat. During summer races it was not uncommon to read circa 70° Celsius inside the car. Yes, a real Nordic sauna but hey much more faster! Loved the car and the Chevy engine. Lucky you!

[MikeL]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

The most important pedal is located on the right, right? My 'Vette had a big block and both the manifolds an side exhaust used to spread a lot of heat. During summer races it was not uncommon to read circa 70° Celsius inside the car. Yes, a real Nordic sauna but hey much more faster! Loved the car and the Chevy engine. Lucky you!

The front cage is now fitted in the Gilbern Chevy GT.