[LM24 Race] 2017 Le Mans 24 Hours Race Thread

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

A hole like that wouldn't have been legal I think. Something about body work must cover mechanical components when viewed from above.

Sidepod?

[Adam43]

I understand that, but considering the hole is unlikely to have a performance advantage, I think it is a real shame.
When you come up with a solution mid race like that it gives you a real buzz and shows a little intelligence. Shame to get smacked due to a technicality.

Would it have been OK they'd stuck some tape over it?

[S griffin]

Well that's not the comic book end that Michael Vaillant wanted. But hey it was just drama after drama for them

[Akrapovic]

Car was DQ'D for non homologation bodywork. So tape wouldn't have worked. Shame, because that's a brilliant proper quick engineering solution.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I understand that, but considering the hole is unlikely to have a performance advantage, I think it is a real shame.
When you come up with a solution mid race like that it gives you a real buzz and shows a little intelligence. Shame to get smacked due to a technicality.

Would it have been OK they'd stuck some tape over it?

Also, they came up with a fix to a part that was dictated to them.

It's against the rules to start the car without the bodywork and put the bodywork back on, then leave the pit. The car has to be shut off, bodywork added, and then restarted, hence the hole.

Stupid ruling from the dumbest, most short-sighted sanctioning body in all of motorsport.

[Ospi]

There wasn't anything brilliant about it. There's a very clear rule in the book stating it's illegal and they broke it, what's brilliant about that?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Ospi

There wasn't anything brilliant about it. There's a very clear rule in the book stating it's illegal and they broke it, what's brilliant about that?

So next time there is a starter issue, just withdraw from the race, right?

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

So next time there is a starter issue, just withdraw from the race, right?

Change the starter.

[airbusA346]

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Nothing stopping them from removing the engine cover each stop. No rules broken.

Yes, yes there are rules preventing that which I watched them struggle with and listed above. They had to do this "procedure" twice during a stop as the starter froze again.


Evidently, there's no room in racing for racing anymore.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Ospi

There wasn't anything brilliant about it. There's a very clear rule in the book stating it's illegal and they broke it, what's brilliant about that?

Application of the the rule is stupid considering the circumstances. Rebellion was brilliant for he call and were rewarded with 3rd place only to have it taken away.

[Akrapovic]

The rule is intended to stop being making their own bodywork for a performance advantage, not trying to stop people solve reliability issues.

[Ospi]

Sorry. Regulations are very clear and in black and white for all to see before the event.

They weren't awarded 3rd for their "brilliance", they did however take podium celebrations of a team in 4th (now 3rd) who broke no rules and didn't get to celebrate their deserved podium which is a shame.

Their option was to change the starter. They may not have finished on the podium but it's a lot better than a dsq.

You can't make exceptions because it's the spirit of the sport within regs, tjey fall down if you begin doing that. For the sport to work it needs to be to the letter otherwise loopholes appear, teams try to get clever and it becomes a mess.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Sorry. Regulations are very clear and in black and white for all to see before the event.

They weren't awarded 3rd for their "brilliance", they did however take podium celebrations of a team in 4th (now 3rd) who broke no rules and didn't get to celebrate their deserved podium which is a shame.

Their option was to change the starter. They may not have finished on the podium but it's a lot better than a dsq.

That's a bit over dramatic isn't it? Makes it sound like they all got together to form an evil plot to overthrow the white Knights of the Jackie Chan DC Racing team and stop them from having a celebration.

Or maybe it's a racing team that overlooked a rule and got punished. We see it continually in a lot of series. Happens in Blancpain to professional teams every week. Given the intention of the rule, it's easy to see how this mistake was made. Its the same as Toyota last year stopping after the finish line and doing a slow lap and getting nothing. If they'd stopped before the line they'd have been fine. Hard to remember every single rule during a race, especially when they're for a different intention.

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

That's a bit over dramatic isn't it? Makes it sound like they all got together to form an evil plot to overthrow the white Knights of the Jackie Chan DC Racing team and stop them from having a celebration.

Or maybe it's a racing team that overlooked a rule and got punished. We see it continually in a lot of series. Happens in Blancpain to professional teams every week. Given the intention of the rule, it's easy to see how this mistake was made. Its the same as Toyota last year stopping after the finish line and doing a slow lap and getting nothing. If they'd stopped before the line they'd have been fine. Hard to remember every single rule during a race, especially when they're for a different intention.

It's not easy, no, but racing at the top rarely is. It sucks for them but the decision is the correct one.

[Akrapovic]

Yeah I agree, never said it wasn't. It did break a rule. But I don't think it's anywhere near as black and white as what was made out since that's clearly not what the rule was intended to do. We all know why homologation exists and this generally isn't why. Only a couple of years ago that solution would be brilliant, and it was relatively common place as well.

They clearly broke the rule by accident and it is a disqualification but I don't see it as some horrible crime, or screwing JC DC, who did get both sets of drivers on the podium anyway.

[Rf1 Fan]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yeah I agree, never said it wasn't. It did break a rule. But I don't think it's anywhere near as black and white as what was made out since that's clearly not what the rule was intended to do. We all know why homologation exists and this generally isn't why. Only a couple of years ago that solution would be brilliant, and it was relatively common place as well.

They clearly broke the rule by accident and it is a disqualification but I don't see it as some horrible crime, or screwing JC DC, who did get both sets of drivers on the podium anyway.

According to Racer.com they tried to cover up the hole in Parc Fermé.

To my book i have no sympathy for them after reading that.

They broke rules and they tried to go under the radar.

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yeah I agree, never said it wasn't. It did break a rule. But I don't think it's anywhere near as black and white as what was made out since that's clearly not what the rule was intended to do. We all know why homologation exists and this generally isn't why. Only a couple of years ago that solution would be brilliant, and it was relatively common place as well.

They clearly broke the rule by accident and it is a disqualification but I don't see it as some horrible crime, or screwing JC DC, who did get both sets of drivers on the podium anyway.

There's no subjectivity with how it's written. Besides, it did give them a performance advantage by allowing them quicker pit stops.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Ospi

It's not easy, no, but racing at the top rarely is. It sucks for them but the decision is the correct one.

That's a final straw for me if I was Rebellion, if a French team had done it they wouldn't have batted an eye. They have ignored all kinds of in race modifications in the past and did not like the fact that Rebellion showed everyone how asinine the rules over the bodywork were. If that's a penalty worthy of DQ, I'd leave for IMSA before the next race and tell the ACO to pound sand. They let cars run without cheese wedges, lights, leader lights (when they were required) and without a MIRROR, but no a hole in the bodywork is a no-no. That's spitting in the face of a team that has invested millions in to the sport building cars and running when no one else wanted to play. And if Oreca doesn't fix that moronic take the wing off to take off the engine cover, some one else will and demonstrate repairability and responsive design to on track needs. And yes, they could with the one joker allowed which as I read did not need unanimous vote, the Ligier request was to not use their joker but instead get a change to allowed bodywork.

[Adam43]

Yes technically wrong. We all see that. Straight away. The posts all written with that knowledge.

Still a shame though. I speak as someone has needed bodges to keep a car going to its destination or in a race. These little things build to make the sport more than a set of rules, they build the romance. However maybe time for that in our sport is gone.

It was outside the rules. Disqualify it. Simples.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Change the starter.

As a few teams had stated to FS1, almost impossible from where the starter is located without losing enough time to just retire the car cause you likely won't make the 60% distance.

[Adam43]

Pull into the garage then and close the shutters. Simples.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Ospi

There's no subjectivity with how it's written. Besides, it did give them a performance advantage by allowing them quicker pit stops.

Performance advantage? You mean they weren't disadvantaged as much? If this were truly a spec class they would have made everyone take off their engine cover to bang the starter at every stop. That's fair. Or how about we go full IROC and have the ACO supply all the teams with the car. Sort of a permanent Parc Ferme. That sounds great.

At the end of the day, as long as it's another Oreca on the podium, everyone is happy, amirite?

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

As a few teams had stated to FS1, almost impossible from where the starter is located without losing enough time to just retire the car cause you likely won't make the 60% distance.

Which shifts attention to oreca & Gibson who have developed a product which puts teams into a very difficult situation. Starters have been an ongoing issue for Oreca, tds lost the elms championship last year as a result. One would have hoped they could engineer a solution for such situations within the rules.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Which shifts attention to oreca & Gibson who have developed a product which puts teams into a very difficult situation. Starters have been an ongoing issue for Oreca, tds lost the elms championship last year as a result. One would have hoped they could engineer a solution for such situations within the rules.

If you have a monopoly handed to you by the organizers, why would you care?