The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[TF110]

It wasn't supposed to be a huge program at first anyway. Must we repeat the past couple of pages?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by TF110

It wasn't supposed to be a huge program at first anyway. Must we repeat the past couple of pages?

You wouldn't know Toyota had upped their program from what we've seen so far. The thing I can't believe is that they were actually going to go to Le Mans with one car this year before this 'step up', which itself still equates to the bare minimum of running and even less at the moment. Every speed bump they hit now doesn't just hurt this season, but 2013 too.

I hope people don't think I'm anti-Toyota or routing against them. It's the absolute opposite. I want to see them putting up a huge fight in June and I'll be there supporting them. The TS030 is the car I'm most looking forward to seeing. As I said before it's just comments born out of frustration at their willingness to shoot themselves repeatedly in the foot.

[TF110]

There's no reason to think they will have only one car at LeMans. They have the time to make another car by the test day. I'm betting on it.

[gwyllion]

The point that Simmi is making, is that all this talk about Toyota had to step up their game to save the WEC is irrelevant for their current monocoque issue.

Toyota always intended to debut the TS030 at Spa and race with 2 cars at Le Mans. The only difference between their original plan (limited WEC rounds) and their "step up" plan (full WEC season) is post Le Mans.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

There's no reason to think they will have only one car at LeMans. They have the time to make another car by the test day. I'm betting on it.

I don't think that anybody things that with certainty they will only have 1 car at Le Mans. The problem is if they crash once again, they can't get a new chassis ready (that would be the 4th TS030 chassis).

[R4z3rw33n]

Dr. Ullrich's thoughts:


In all seriousness, I'd like to see them competitive, as would most here. Which is likely why there's some frustration being expressed.
Despite the fact this was going to be a development year regardless, many people had high (or, reasonable) expectations in regards to TMG's professionalism.

Life goes on. Hopefully we see a mildly competitive car come June.

[Adam43]

The increasing levels of expectation: reasonable, high, TF110.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

That pretty much sums up the broadcast of Le Mans 24h 2012

[Acid09]

Well, the car hasn't raced yet but they`re already starting to exploit the marketing gains

Just saw a Toyota Hybrid TV ad that features the TS030.

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The point that Simmi is making, is that all this talk about Toyota had to step up their game to save the WEC is irrelevant for their current monocoque issue.

Toyota always intended to debut the TS030 at Spa and race with 2 cars at Le Mans. The only difference between their original plan (limited WEC rounds) and their "step up" plan (full WEC season) is post Le Mans.

No, they originally only intended to run one car at LeMans with SPA as an opportunity to test it in a race beforehand. All that's changed is, the accident, means they can't pre race-test it at SPA!

So, if they do get 2 cars to LeMans, they are ahead of their original plans! Just as well Racing Teams are more possitive than some of the doom merchants here!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Rennen

No, they originally only intended to run one car at LeMans with SPA as an opportunity to test it in a race beforehand. All that's changed is, the accident, means they can't pre race-test it at SPA!

... and that all test sessions that were planned this month, are cancelled.

BTW you are probably talking about the original plan when they were given the green light in October 2011. However, according to Gary Watkins (Autosport of February 2, 2012) the two cars at Le Mans were planned before Peugeot's withdrawal.

Bigger programme
Toyota expanded its Le Mans attack from one to two cars, before Peugeot announced its withdrawal earlier this month. The suggestion that it could run all the races after the 24 Hours, rather than the selected events originally planned, isn't dismissed by Vasselon.
"Going to two [cars] was partly down to the enthusiasm the programme generated," says Vasselon who denies Toyota is under pressure to do more races from the ACO.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Rennen

So, if they do get 2 cars to LeMans, they are ahead of their original plans!

If?

Oh dear...

[alexkiller8]

having folded spa, toyota will run in all remaining 6 races or as planned will fold another one between bahrein and interlagos? in this way the best 6 results rule will become meaningless.

[Articus]

I think th eproblem is that Audi and Peugeot make it look so easy....Its not easy as evidenced by Toyota. Give them a break. They probably wont win Le Mans unless the Audi's take each other out but that doesnt mean they are not putting in the effort and spending the money..

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by Articus

I think the problem is that Audi and Peugeot make it look so easy....

Yeah, especially Audi. Even if Toyota were on point and full steam ahead, betting against Audi would be a little, how should I put it... shortsighted? The hardware back in Ingolstadt (10, or 11 if you wanna count Bently ) speaks for itself really!

[Articus]

The only weakness of the Audi is its very fragile because its very light bodywork. Any sort of contact means body work change for them. Unlike the R8 which was called a tank.

[TF110]

Audi is great and all, but they've been doing LeMans for the past decade. So of course they'll have plenty of practice and cars lined up. This is what they're committed to. 2013 Toyota will have it's "full force" so the real challenge is then. Even this year with 2 cars (I believe) they'll still have a serious fight for the win. I don't make predictions, I just hope for the best. I'm really glad Toyota is back and I have a good feeling about them, despite the setbacks.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by TF110

2013 Toyota will have it's "full force" so the real challenge is then.

If Toyota can make use of the rest of the season, getting some critical data and doing a decent job at Le Mans, I would confidently say they would be real contenders next year. The one thing Toyota has on everyone is facilities, they get the rest on track, I think we could see some classic red and white on the top step!

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

If Toyota can make use of the rest of the season, getting some critical data and doing a decent job at Le Mans, I would confidently say they would be real contenders next year. The one thing Toyota has on everyone is facilities, they get the rest on track, I think we could see some classic red and white on the top step!

i think that sums it up really.this year Toyota will have to give up on the whole - being the first Hybrid to win lemans claim. the sort of preperation that they haev put into the whole project wont yeild those results. they maybe quick but reliability and inexperience will be their undoing. shame though because i really wanted Toyota to be the first hybrid to win le mans but atleast they have the accolade of being the first hybrid in motorsports to win a race. regardless of whatever the Audi hybrid will achieve on the track, we all know in real world, a Toyota hybrid will refuse to die while the audi will spend most of its time in the workshop.

[TF110]

There's still hope. Just because they haven't raced yet doesn't mean they can't challenge (or win). Their last LeMans project didn't race before LeMans either. And it was the on pace or the pace setter in 98 and 99. Bad luck for the team soured their chances. I say if they could do it then, they can do it now. Sure, times have changed and so has technology, but they haven't been asleep. I do find comments from Pascal Vasselon interesting to say the least- where he is quoted as saying the car will look much different than what weve seen and that they're going to push the boundaries of the rules- much like the TS020 did.

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

... and that all test sessions that were planned this month, are cancelled.

BTW you are probably talking about the original plan when they were given the green light in October 2011. However, according to Gary Watkins (Autosport of February 2, 2012) the two cars at Le Mans were planned before Peugeot's withdrawal.

I said 'Originally'!!

[Adam43]

TF110, using 1998 and 1999 as a comparison is probably good, but you are selective. On the pace, yes (and a glorious car), but there lack of other race experience also hindered their assault.

Which is why next year will be good if they get more and more running under their belt in the meantime.

They'll be quick and your comparison is a good one. If you consider all aspects.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by Articus

The only weakness of the Audi is its very fragile because its very light bodywork. Any sort of contact means body work change for them. Unlike the R8 which was called a tank.

What is this statement based on?

[Adam43]

I make no comment on the strength, consequence of lightness, or rationale. However the lightness is referred to here: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/audi-r18-tdi/

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Adam43

TF110, using 1998 and 1999 as a comparison is probably good, but you are selective. On the pace, yes (and a glorious car), but there lack of other race experience also hindered their assault.

Which is why next year will be good if they get more and more running under their belt in the meantime.

They'll be quick and your comparison is a good one. If you consider all aspects.

They could not race the TS020 is previous venues to LeMans (at least to my knowledge). That's not to say they can't with the TS030. Just pointing out that because they didn't have the chance to race that car doesn't mean it wasn't able to challenge. I know there is a difference today and the Audi's have loads of experience and previous races under the same car's belt. But IMO there's no reason to think they won't be on pace, or can't go the distance. As far as the team aspect goes, we'll just have to see if Oreca has helped out any with the pitstop routine and those other unseen aspects.