Future Grands Prix?

[Peter Mallett]

Unless you recall the consequences of the flu vaccine in I Am Legend..........

Which would rule out a Brooklyn GP.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Pfizer also make chapstick. The brand. DRY LIPS ALL ROUND. Don't support cat killers!

Didn't think we'd manage to get into Big Pharma Facebook trash on an F1 thread, but apparently all we needed was CatInfo.org and some dunning kruger to get us there.

Haha

As a related aside (not F1 related, but that seems to be de rigeur here these days) - Pfizer were the first chemical company to mass produce penicillin back in the 1940s, which switched them from bulk fine chemicals to pharmaceuticals. And they researched, discovered, got approval for and marketed the friendly little blue pill so beloved of People of a Certain Age which had the useful and not altogether unintended consequence of being a treatment for a physical problem which had massive mental health benefits.

So yeah, I'll go with "company with a bazillion beneficial pharmaceutical discoveries which makes the occasional error along with the regulators and peer reviewers, produces a vaccine". That works for me.

[Greem]

Also, the people doing the site analytics for catinfo.org are going to be somewhat bemused that their site has suddenly had a surge in interest from an F1 forum

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

Also, the people doing the site analytics for catinfo.org are going to be somewhat bemused that their site has suddenly had a surge in interest from an F1 forum

Along with wondering why an article updated 8 years ago is being visited....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Pfizer also make chapstick. The brand. DRY LIPS ALL ROUND. Don't support cat killers!

Didn't think we'd manage to get into Big Pharma Facebook trash on an F1 thread, but apparently all we needed was CatInfo.org and some dunning kruger to get us there.

"Big Pharma Facebook trash?" Dear oh dear!!!

Is one or two comments of genuine concern cause for such over exageration?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chunterer

"Big Pharma Facebook trash?" Dear oh dear!!!

Is one or two comments of genuine concern cause for such over exageration?

Yes, I am sure it is me who is exaggerating. Not those who get their medical information from CatInfo and a Facebook Group that is administered by Kevin, who has spent all of 15 minutes researching something which doctors and scientists have spent 30 years becoming experts in. You're right. I should take this genuine concern more seriously.

Who here has medical advice they'd like to share with me? The less qualifications the better.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

What is funny is the content on CatInfo.org was actually pretty balanced and not particularly alarmist. The label for that antibiotic shows clinical trials using approx 300 cats with death not listed as an adverse reaction. I have no reason to doubt the reports of death in cats. Maybe if there was a larger clinical trial it would generate the data to show how frequent (given existing data, probably much less than 1%). A trial size of 300 seems low, but I have no idea what is typical for testing of non-human drugs. I suspect the testing requirements are a bit looser.

As to human vaccines. I believe human vaccine clinical trials are likely to be in the tens of thousands. So the risks of taking one of the various vaccines that will be provided should be well known. And I fully expect not taking one will be a much higher risk.

Richard

I am not an expert, or in any way trained in medical science what-so-ever. But I do know the company I work for manages a medical trials app for one of the "big pharma" companies (there are probably some horror stories on CatInfo.org about them). I'm the person who sets up the trials. They seem to have between 200-400 people per trial. I set them up with a max number of people of 500 a time. I have no idea what the drugs or trials are as it's all codenamed. In saying that, I just see random IDs for the people so there are no guarantee that these are in use. Anecdotal evidence from someone who doesn't know much. I'm thinking of starting a website...

[Adam43]

I think so. As the drama started in the original post on the cat killers! That and it is just funny to take that and run with it.

We all have a responsibility to cite credible information or credible sources and to discuss rationally on such matters. It’s not just the media, or the politicians who do.

This was a link with no context, no critical thought into whether it was relevant or trustworthy and oh such an easy accusation of no ethics from a keyboard.

I say nothing of the credibility of the piece, but that is not the link nor balance in the post on it to understand it.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Who here has medical advice they'd like to share with me? The less qualifications the better.

Stop scratching. You'll make it bleed.

[chillibowl]

i dont know about cats, but i think i will have an issue with a vaccinated circus going to places where they will have yet to vaccinate their most susceptible citizens first.

because of the nature of travel in F1, i suppose one can make an argument that people who work in F1, who derive their livelihoods from F1, are part of that susceptible/transmitting group so should be high on the list of those who get vaccinated early...and for the most part i will be willing to accept that argument but i just know that some host nations will make themselves hard to support.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I am not an expert, or in any way trained in medical science what-so-ever. But I do know the company I work for manages a medical trials app for one of the "big pharma" companies (there are probably some horror stories on CatInfo.org about them). I'm the person who sets up the trials. They seem to have between 200-400 people per trial. I set them up with a max number of people of 500 a time. I have no idea what the drugs or trials are as it's all codenamed. In saying that, I just see random IDs for the people so there are no guarantee that these are in use. Anecdotal evidence from someone who doesn't know much. I'm thinking of starting a website...

So I know probably less than you! I did contract work for "big pharma" many many years ago, but that experience was related to production and not clinical trials. So my knowledge is purely from reading online resources. My understanding is there are multiple phases of trials (0, I, II, III, IV) with the number of participants ramping from from tens in phase 0 to thousands in the later stages. I have no idea what is typical participant count in phase III or IV study.

Pfizer just released info a few days about their first pass at processing data for their Covid19 vaccine. Their phase III study had over 43K participants (I would assume maybe half are control group?). I saw another report about another vaccine starting a study with 60K participants. That is where I came up with my "tens of thousands" comment earlier.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...didate-against

Sorry for the off topic posts.

Richard

[Peter Mallett]

I once helped to build a pharma plant in Sweden for Zeneca.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i dont know about cats, but i think i will have an issue with a vaccinated circus going to places where they will have yet to vaccinate their most susceptible citizens first.

Yes. Its my understanding that we should not expect 100% effectiveness with respect to the vaccines. So the traveling group within F1 could be vaccinated, but yet still also potentially bring it to a remote location. So you are right in that the key thing is an active vaccination program in the destination.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

because of the nature of travel in F1, i suppose one can make an argument that people who work in F1, who derive their livelihoods from F1, are part of that susceptible/transmitting group so should be high on the list of those who get vaccinated early...and for the most part i will be willing to accept that argument but i just know that some host nations will make themselves hard to support.

I get that logic, but I expect there is a much longer line of priority recipients ahead of the F1 crowd.

* High risk healthcare workers (those on the front lines)
* First responders (police, fire, EMT, etc.)
* Those with health conditions that put them at very high risk
* Elderly (especially those in crowded conditions)
* Critical workers (Those who keep society going such as food processing, sanitation, education, etc.)
* Those who are required to work or live in crowded conditions (prison inmates, prison staff)

Even the above may have lists within list. I expect deeper in the list might be people who travel or have a larger potential for spreading infection than the general population. You would probably find the traveling portion of F1 in that list. Lastly, there is probably no unified strategy for this. So expect each country to define their own priority list that might be slightly different.

What I expect will be the issue is first world countries will be vaccinated MUCH quicker than everyone else. Expect that to be a news item over the next 6-12 months. You may see travel loosen up in some places and not in others due to this.

If we are crazy off topic here, I can stop posting on this.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I get that logic, but I expect there is a much longer line of priority recipients ahead of the F1 crowd.

* High risk health car workers (those on the front lines)
* First responders (police, fire, EMT, etc.)
* Those with health conditions that put them at very high risk
* Elderly (especially those in crowded conditions)
* Critical workers (Those who keep society going as food processing, etc.)
* Those who are required to work or live in crowded conditions (prison inmates, inmate workers)

Even the above may have lists within list. I expect deeper in the list might be people who travel or have a larger potential for spreading infection than the general population. You would probably find the traveling portion of F1 in that list.

In the UK - the priority list has been published by the Govt.
The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) list reads:

This interim ranking of priorities is a combination of clinical risk stratification and an age-based approach, which should optimise both targeting and deliverability. A provisional ranking of prioritisation for persons at-risk is set out below:

1-older adults’ resident in a care home and care home workers
2-all those 80 years of age and over and health and social care workers
3-all those 75 years of age and over
4-all those 70 years of age and over
5-all those 65 years of age and over
6-high-risk adults under 65 years of age
7-moderate-risk adults under 65 years of age
8-all those 60 years of age and over
9-all those 55 years of age and over
10-all those 50 years of age and over
11-rest of the population (priority to be determined)
The prioritisation could change substantially if the first available vaccines were not considered suitable for, or effective in, older adults.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Greem

Stop scratching. You'll make it bleed.

Cat scratch fever.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

If we are crazy off topic here, I can stop posting on this.

for me its a very relevant topic/consideration. i suppose i am also biased as i have loved this season so i also happen to be very much in favour of seeing a similar type of European/western calendar focus again next year.

*maybe that sounds bad though...obviously if there is a vaccine i hope everyone everywhere has access to it!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

In the UK - the priority list has been published by the Govt.

It's interesting they have gone for a pure age based distribution. The link you provided did comment that there is potential for parallel distribution for others.

The list I called out is a short summary of recommendations that were put together here in the US for the CDC by National Academy of Sciences

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019.../8-things.html
https://www.nationalacademies.org/ou...el-coronavirus
https://www.nap.edu/resource/25917/F...20COVID-19.pdf

Like the UK the US seems to have more of a "strategy" that is flexible and depends upon the situation at the moment (supply of vaccine, etc.)

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-man...m_Playbook.pdf

It is a phase approach and the first phase which assumes limited supply at first, so as supply ramps up it focuses on "Critical Populations"

• Critical infrastructure workforce

o Healthcare personnel (i.e., paid and unpaid personnel working in healthcare settings, which may
include vaccinators, pharmacy staff, ancillary staff, school nurses, and EMS personnel)
o Other essential workers (see additional guidance from the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure
Security Agency [CISA])
Note: The critical infrastructure workforce varies by jurisdiction. Each jurisdiction must decide which
groups to focus on when vaccine supply is limited by determining key sectors that may be within
their populations (e.g., port-related workers in coastal jurisdictions)

• People at increased risk for severe COVID-19 illness

o LTCF residents (i.e., residents of nursing homes and assisted living facilities)
o People with underlying medical conditions that are risk factors for severe COVID-19 illness
o People 65 years of age and older

• People at increased risk of acquiring or transmitting COVID-19

o People from racial and ethnic minority groups
o People from tribal communities
o People who are incarcerated/detained in correctional facilities
o People experiencing homelessness/living in shelters
o People attending colleges/universities
o People who work in educational settings (e.g., early learning centers, schools, and
colleges/universities)
o People living and working in other congregate settings

• People with limited access to routine vaccination services

o People living in rural communities
o People with disabilities
o People who are under- or uninsured

Ok, I am way off the ranch now. So in short, I do think we will continue to see Covid19 impacting the 2021 schedule in some situations. Particularly early in the season and in geographies that are in strong lockdown due either new surges, or on the backside of a peak as they are hesitant to reopen (again).

Richard

[S griffin]

The important thing is the vaccine will happen. It’s about time after what’s happened this year

I just hope it’s done soon and it’s effective. Too much time has passed. Hopefully we can start getting back to normal. Too many people have been affected by this halting in different areas

Hopefully things will be settled come the new season. We need things to really run smoothly next year and there are reasons to be optimistic

[Adam43]

“It’s about time”, “Too much time has passed”.

This is not how researching a vaccine works! It’s not like building a road or something. You can’t just demand it is found at a particular time or say too much time has passed. It may never be found.

There have been many months of disruption and that is not good. It has impacted many lives, but I don’t understand the rhetoric.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

“It’s about time”, “Too much time has passed”.

I was reading it in a positive way. More like we are waiting on this moment, but just tired of waiting. (fair enough in my mind). I do think people are working flat out to get vaccines done both quickly and safely. Even then a vaccine (or multiple) will not be the end, but just part of the end. There will be a new normal as well. I personally suspect I may continue to primarily work from home when this is all done as an example. Just like the flue is an ongoing thing we have to put up with year after year, I expect so will relatively virulent versions of Covid as well.

In the end, its a journey and everyone's story is slightly different. Hopefully we are hiking back down the mountain and not still on the way up.



Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I was reading it in a positive way. More like we are waiting on this moment, but just tired of waiting. (fair enough in my mind). I do think people are working flat out to get vaccines done both quickly and safely. Even then a vaccine (or multiple) will not be the end, but just part of the end. There will be a new normal as well. I personally suspect I may continue to primarily work from home when this is all done as an example. Just like the flue is an ongoing thing we have to put up with year after year, I expect so will relatively virulent versions of Covid as well.

In the end, its a journey and everyone's story is slightly different. Hopefully we are hiking back down the mountain and not still on the way up.



Richard

You get a good view from the top of the mountain.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

In the end, its a journey and everyone's story is slightly different. Hopefully we are hiking back down the mountain and not still on the way up.

Right now it feels like Cader Idris or Carnedd Dafydd in Snowdonia; both have routes that are an endless sequence of false summits which you crest, only to find the next one is twice as far away as the last was!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I was reading it in a positive way. More like we are waiting on this moment, but just tired of waiting. (fair enough in my mind). I do think people are working flat out to get vaccines done both quickly and safely. Even then a vaccine (or multiple) will not be the end, but just part of the end. There will be a new normal as well. I personally suspect I may continue to primarily work from home when this is all done as an example. Just like the flue is an ongoing thing we have to put up with year after year, I expect so will relatively virulent versions of Covid as well.

In the end, its a journey and everyone's story is slightly different. Hopefully we are hiking back down the mountain and not still on the way up.



Richard

Fair enough.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

You get a good view from the top of the mountain.

As long as your not in the foothills and the clouds are obscuring the true summit.


(Edit... I didn't see your post below when I typed the above!)

Originally Posted by Greem

Right now it feels like Cader Idris or Carnedd Dafydd in Snowdonia; both have routes that are an endless sequence of false summits which you crest, only to find the next one is twice as far away as the last was!

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

As long as your not in the foothills and the clouds are obscuring the true summit. Richard

One would hope one would know the difference, between the foothills and the summit.