[LM24 Race] 2017 Le Mans 24 Hours Race Thread

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Which shifts attention to oreca & Gibson who have developed a product which puts teams into a very difficult situation. Starters have been an ongoing issue for Oreca, tds lost the elms championship last year as a result. One would have hoped they could engineer a solution for such situations within the rules.

K, you offered they need a solution and they have had a problem? Did other cars have a problem that needed an opening to get it running??I don't remember one. And was the Oreca last season a Gibson engine? So not really comparable to the Gibson '17 problems.

It was something that was celebrated in the past and was mentioned positively more than a few times by people who would know the rules without a single mention of it contravening any rules. It's a BS rule and DEFINITELY outside their beloved spirit of racing rules that used to be sacred to the ACO. I better see every team using bear bond tape DQ'd, that's not part of the homolgated bodywork and outside the rules.

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

If you have a monopoly handed to you by the organizers, why would you care?

Handed to them by the organisers?

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

K, you offered they need a solution and they have had a problem? Did other cars have a problem that needed an opening to get it running??I don't remember one. And was the Oreca last season a Gibson engine? So not really comparable to the Gibson '17 problems.

It was something that was celebrated in the past and was mentioned positively more than a few times by people who would know the rules without a single mention of it contravening any rules. It's a BS rule and DEFINITELY outside their beloved spirit of racing rules that used to be sacred to the ACO. I better see every team using bear bond tape DQ'd, that's not part of the homolgated bodywork and outside the rules.

I know of other teams having issues during the lead up.

Difference between tape on bodywork and modification of bodywork to give an advantage in the form of a large time advantage.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Ospi

I know of other teams having issues during the lead up.

Difference between tape on bodywork and modification of bodywork to give an advantage in the form of a large time advantage.

Major time advantage in not having to replace the bodypanel but rather tape it back on??

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Major time advantage in not having to replace the bodypanel but rather tape it back on??

By modifying bodywork instead of (unfortunately) changing the starter.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Handed to them by the organisers?

Yes, not sure what your question is here?

Originally Posted by Ospi

I know of other teams having issues during the lead up.

Difference between tape on bodywork and modification of bodywork to give an advantage in the form of a large time advantage.

Having a seized starter motor is never an advantage. What you mean is a reduction in the disadvantage. I do not disagree with you that rules were broken, but the ACO has some history with this... look at the leader light and last lap classification rules that were changed after last year. Why not make the right call now instead?

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Yes, not sure what your question is here?



Having a seized starter motor is never an advantage. What you mean is a reduction in the disadvantage. I do not disagree with you that rules were broken, but the ACO has some history with this... look at the leader light and last lap classification rules that were changed after last year. Why not make the right call now instead?

Thought the question was quite obvious.

Can't change the rule after the race, doesn't make much sense. For the next event perhaps, time will tell.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Ospi

Handed to them by the organisers?

ORECA was the major campaigner for the limits to chassis manufacturers in P2. Many see it as not a coincidence that they've come out on top with a full lock out in WEC, and being allowed to brand chassis as Alpine (something the WEC said would not be allowed), after they got exactly what they wanted. Its not a secret how close to the organisers ORECA are, unfortunately.

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

ORECA was the major campaigner for the limits to chassis manufacturers in P2. Many see it as not a coincidence that they've come out on top with a full lock out in WEC, and being allowed to brand chassis as Alpine (something the WEC said would not be allowed), after they got exactly what they wanted. Its not a secret how close to the organisers ORECA are, unfortunately.

Many of the top of the ACO are ex onroak, I don't buy this overwhelming favouritism conspiracy people thrown around, Fuji 2015 is another example where this favouritism should have reared it's head and instead the opposite occurred.

[Scorchess]

Quite a few people on the internet with irrational ACO hate-boners. It is what it is.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Scorchess

Quite a few people on the internet with irrational ACO hate-boners. It is what it is.

90% of my hate is rational. Only 10% is reserved for blurting out jibberish.

[chernaudi]

Not counting the Rebellion penalty (which the team say they will appeal), here's some other penalties from LM:

Also, there were other penalties issued post race, including the #24 Oreca getting a 35 second time penalty for the crew pushing the car in the pit lane too far, the #49 Ligier getting a two minute penalty for one of it's drivers exceeding the four hour drive time in any 6 hour period.

Not to mention that Roman Rusinov will have to serve a 3 minute stop and hold penalty at Nurburgring for causing a collision with the #88 Porsche, as well as driving the wrong way on track without authorization or appropriate force majure, and cutting the pit entry. He's also essentially on probation for the next three races, as the ACO reserve the right to issue a further 3 minute stop and hold if they deem him at fault for any more incidents over the course of the next 3 WEC races.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Just on reflection, that really was a phenomenal race.

[PascaLM]

I don't understand the discussion about the penalty for the Rebellion. Nobody is allowed to work on a car in the parc fermé. It has been like that in any kind of motor race, everytime. Fermé means closed. They didn't respect this common rule, That's all.

[chernaudi]

And that's what I think got them in the most trouble. The deal with a hole cut in the bodywork, the ACO would be inclined to take a dim view on it, as well as the deal with the starter motor question of if the car was shut off or on, but that would probably have earned them a time penalty. You can't mess with a car in parc ferme without the permission of the technical delegate or race director until the release the car.

You have to remember that Risi got their Q1 times thrown out for a similar issue.

[GT-Eins]

additional Statistics from our extensive Race-Report:


more to be found here:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2017/2...istiken_Rennen

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Oh no. I thought that was a great solution. had real endurance feel to it.

Originally Posted by skycafe

Whoa, and whoa. I understand rules, I really do, but how bound up is this race with endless rules?

Originally Posted by Adam43

When you come up with a solution mid race like that it gives you a real buzz and shows a little intelligence. Shame to get smacked due to a technicality.

'A shame. I've been passionate about racing all my life but spec cars, BoPs,, billiard table circuits, ridiculous yellows/safeties, crazy rules.....wings that open only for the passer for crying out loud..... It's all losing me.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Ospi

It's not easy, no, but racing at the top rarely is. It sucks for them but the decision is the correct one.

It clearly was correct (and to avoid any doubt, I was rooting for them for the whole race). The correct solution was to bring the car in and replace the duff part. Yes, the hole enabled them to continue, but it was undoubtedly in breach of the rules. As to whether a French car would have been penalised, well, it's just a bit too easy to make disparaging assumptions.....


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[rdjones]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Nobody is allowed to work on a car in the parc fermé. It has been like that in any kind of motor race, everytime.

I agree whole heartily with statement it doesn't matter if you are racing at Le Mans or at club meeting at Croft once your car is in Parc Ferme you don't touch it until you are told too.

Rebellion and I know there is a big fan base of this forum following the garage visit 8/9 years ago broke the rules plain an simple. Had they covered up the hole at the last stop, as others have said they would have got away with it.

I understand that they are going to appeal so I guess we will have to watch this space.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It clearly was correct (and to avoid any doubt, I was rooting for them for the whole race). The correct solution was to bring the car in and replace the duff part. Yes, the hole enabled them to continue, but it was undoubtedly in breach of the rules. As to whether a French car would have been penalised, well, it's just a bit too easy to make disparaging assumptions.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But I bought torches for everyone AND shined my pitchfork. ----E

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Just on reflection, that really was a phenomenal race.

Yep!

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by rdjones

Had they covered up the hole at the last stop, as others have said they would have got away with it.

I understand that they are going to appeal so I guess we will have to watch this space.

I am something of a Rebellion fan .... but i have to agree with rdjones. A $2 piece of tape at the last stop, and we wouldn't be discussing this. Trying to change the car in parc ferme----that's a penalty in itself.

24 hours of great racing ... Months or more of planning to get there, get to the podium---it might be a while until we see a P2 car do That a Le Mans again--- and they failed to plan 45 minutes in advance of taking the checker----and lost it all.

I hate it but I have to accept it. the fault lies with Rebellion.

[Akrapovic]

They'd have still been penalised for taping the hole. It was non-homologated bodywork, and it wasnt' accident damage related, so the only way of getting out of that would be change the bodywork back. But even then, you ran with technically illegal bodywork, so that's still a penalty.

[Victor_RO]

DHH being gracious in defeat/DSQ:

https://twitter.com/dhhracing/status/877152917580546049

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by jimclark

'A shame. I've been passionate about racing all my life but spec cars, BoPs,, billiard table circuits, ridiculous yellows/safeties, crazy rules.....wings that open only for the passer for crying out loud..... It's all losing me.

Cars having launch processes more complicated then the Saturn V moon shots...