|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
6 Dec 2021, 13:51 (Ref:4087246) | #2526 | ||
Team Crouton
1% Club
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 40,008
|
|||
__________________
280 days...... |
6 Dec 2021, 14:01 (Ref:4087253) | #2527 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,582
|
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
6 Dec 2021, 14:06 (Ref:4087256) | #2528 | ||
Team Crouton
1% Club
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 40,008
|
An irony not lost on me when I saw it.....
|
||
__________________
280 days...... |
6 Dec 2021, 16:30 (Ref:4087298) | #2529 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,320
|
I just think all that belaboured kneeling & stuff is just toothless and ludicrous also with that poetry piece they repeat every time & here they are in Saudi Arabia. It was obvious there was some early understanding between the Saudis and F1 to do some token minority pieces so as not to embarrass the drivers too much.
|
||
__________________
If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse. -Henry Ford |
6 Dec 2021, 19:21 (Ref:4087350) | #2530 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,704
|
Quote:
Well I guess that race control can only inform one team at at time, then the person on the team in touch with race control need to tell the engineer who speaks to the driver, then the engineer tells the driver - often waiting for a straight or similar to not distract the driver on a critical part of the circuit - can all add up to some delay. |
|||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
7 Dec 2021, 13:15 (Ref:4087467) | #2531 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,187
|
Quote:
So whilst I don't blame Max, as he was probably briefed to do it there, I do think that's not only penalty worth, but has been given extreme penalties before. And Max did it once, and tried to do it again before Lewis negated it. |
||
|
7 Dec 2021, 13:17 (Ref:4087469) | #2532 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,187
|
Quote:
Timeline according to the FOM Video (this is not live. It is a replay of events provided after the race): - RBR Radios Max entering the back straight - Max slows down seconds later Timeline according to di Resta and Ant - RBR Radios Max in approximately S1 - Max slows down two thirds of a lap later This isn't blaming Max (he's doing what he was almost certainly told to do by his team pre-race), but it is highlighting that the way FOM presented the events post race was absolutely not accurate. Given this incident occurred due to time critical messages, it is a bit poor to provide a replay of it that doesn't represent the timeline of the events accurately. |
||
|
7 Dec 2021, 13:31 (Ref:4087486) | #2533 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,582
|
Quote:
'At turn 21 the driver of car 33 was given the instruction to give back a position to car 44 and was told by the team to do so “strategically”.' At full speed, there are 13 seconds between turn 21 and turn 26. |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
7 Dec 2021, 13:37 (Ref:4087491) | #2534 | ||
Team Crouton
1% Club
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 40,008
|
That's a long time, but still no-one told Hamilton?
|
||
__________________
280 days...... |
7 Dec 2021, 13:44 (Ref:4087494) | #2535 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,582
|
For context - the message to Verstappen was 8 seconds in duration.
If whoever was monitoring that transmission in the Mercedes garage immediately got on the radio to Hamilton and relayed the same message, the transmission would be completed 3 seconds after the collision. |
||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
7 Dec 2021, 13:56 (Ref:4087498) | #2536 | ||
Team Crouton
1% Club
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 40,008
|
That figures, I guess....
|
||
__________________
280 days...... |
7 Dec 2021, 14:02 (Ref:4087500) | #2537 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,996
|
Then that timeline indicates that both teams should be told simultaneously, in the same way that other safety type messages are relayed to the teams.
|
||
|
7 Dec 2021, 14:58 (Ref:4087504) | #2538 | ||
Team Crouton
1% Club
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 40,008
|
|||
__________________
280 days...... |
7 Dec 2021, 15:20 (Ref:4087510) | #2539 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,582
|
Quote:
Do you mean that A) Both teams should be told simultaneously that the Race Director thinks a place should be handed back? Or B) That an instruction from a team to a driver should be told simultaneously to both drivers? Personally - I can see issues with both. A) The direction to hand back a place comes from the Race Director to the team - the team have the option to inform their driver of this, or to not hand back and have the matter referred to the Stewards. In the example at Jeddah - if Mercedes heard the same transmission and then told Hamilton straight away that Verstappen was going to hand back the place, he may have backed off a bit. If Red Bull then decided to not hand the place back, they could gain a significant advantage in time. B) If a driver is told to hand back a place, there is still in the drivers' control the decision of when he hands it back (within reason). If Hamilton hears straight away that a place is to be handed back, he might think that a change of direction is an intent to let him through, when in reality Verstappen might not be doing so at that point. In my opinion, the answer is simple. When you are handing back a place, you are to move clear of the racing line and slow sufficiently to allow the following driver through comfortably. |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
7 Dec 2021, 15:25 (Ref:4087512) | #2540 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,030
|
dont they also receive an email or some sort of direct message in addition to the radio message? also there are the messages which appear on the live timing screens...or are those messages only for indicating an investigation message?
anyways, they obviously have a few people working in there at the same time so they can make multiple calls at the same time. they dont necessarily have to hear from the race director because at that point the time for debate is over with right. |
||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
7 Dec 2021, 15:27 (Ref:4087514) | #2541 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,199
|
Quote:
I think however what you are missing is the point that the overtaking driver should also know what is going on, or might potentially happen. And that this should happen before the leading driver provides the opportunity. I firmly believe that if Lewis had more information at his disposal, things would likely have played out differently. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
7 Dec 2021, 15:43 (Ref:4087516) | #2542 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,582
|
Quote:
'Whilst accepting that the driver of Car 44 could have overtaken Car 33 when that car first slowed, we understand why he (and the driver of Car 33) did not wish to be the first to cross the DRS. However, the sudden braking by the driver of Car 33 was determined by the Stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision' For me, the lack of communication may have been a contributing factor, but the root cause was the sudden braking. On commentary, it was observed that Verstappen's position on the track may have come from him driving to his mirrors - and knowing Hamilton was immediately behind him he applied 69 bar resulting in 2.4g deceleration. Sorry - gone a bit off topic to concentrate on the incident. Probably best to carry on the conversation about whether race control / radio messages can contribute or mitigate an incident in the Driving standards/ stewarding thread? |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
7 Dec 2021, 20:14 (Ref:4087578) | #2543 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,704
|
Quote:
There are many things in TV presentation of sport that aren't accurate (including large amounts of commentary) and this sounds like just another example of that. |
|||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
7 Dec 2021, 21:02 (Ref:4087585) | #2544 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,320
|
Just have a digital display scroll across the dash simultaneously.
Offending driver message: "we see you! now give it back." (thumbs down emoji optional) Wronged driver message: "listen, wake up, sleepy head. he's giving it back, so eyes on the road & not in the clouds, son". |
||
__________________
If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse. -Henry Ford |
7 Dec 2021, 23:32 (Ref:4087603) | #2545 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 44,196
|
We’ve strayed a little way away from the coverage now.
How rules should be imposed or the impact on that race see the relevant thread. We have huge repetition with those threads. People might want to talk about Ted you know! The, things aren’t always live and differences with production teams and choosing what to show are understood now. |
||
__________________
Brum brum |
8 Dec 2021, 02:23 (Ref:4087617) | #2546 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,952
|
To get it back on track, I absolutely love Button and Rosberg's commentary.
|
||
__________________
Part time wingman, full time spud. |
8 Dec 2021, 02:42 (Ref:4087621) | #2547 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 44,196
|
Me too. When Rosberg did it I was very impressed. You’d never have known that it got quite, er, tense with Hamilton when they raced together. Not that there should have been a problem. Also I was a fan when he raced so it was nice to hear him do well at that too. |
||
__________________
Brum brum |
8 Dec 2021, 08:20 (Ref:4087633) | #2548 | |
20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
|
It wouldn't be in Rosberg's interests to downplay Hamilton of course. But yes, I enjoy his commentary even if he does say "the tyres are raging hot" far too much.
Off topic, but they are blatantly going to be on friendly terms when both have retired. Both are happy with their place in the world now! I would quite happily have Rosberg, Button, Webber and DC just sharing duties between them. Sack off the lead commentator as it is a dead art and just rotate between younger retired drivers. Brundle has had his day now I think. |
|
|
8 Dec 2021, 09:30 (Ref:4087647) | #2549 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,187
|
Quote:
|
||
|
8 Dec 2021, 09:46 (Ref:4087650) | #2550 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,582
|
For those interested in observing the exact timing of the message and collision (as broadcast) - 1:13 in this video - https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/v...353440121.html
|
||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
Tags |
pinks |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
If you have Sky, who did you watch the Chinese Grand Prix with -Sky or the BBC? | Born Racer | Formula One | 59 | 21 Apr 2012 19:45 |
2011 UK TV coverage - Sky to drop IndyCar? | jondownunder | Indycar Series | 23 | 8 Feb 2011 19:48 |
UK viewers - what did you think of the Sky Sports coverage? | Knowlesy | NASCAR & Stock Car Racing | 76 | 6 Apr 2008 06:13 |
[TV] F1 TV coverage in the UK (merged) | TheMong | Armchair Enthusiast | 30 | 13 Apr 2007 08:33 |