Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[YorkshireLad]

They never said they were doing 5days, just that they could due to the fact they were piggy backing on audi's testing.. So tbh I'm not worried they've only done 2days maybe more spares would be beneficial when testing, or spares backed up which could be dispatch ASAP.

Sebring hammers the car so it's good they've found faults they can fix before lm.

[MyNameIsNigel]

I suspect that this is the Flybrid unit:


(source: racer.com)

[wdave0]

That huge thing under the driver would certainly explain the origami drivers position (I would be breathing compromised) and - I just noticed, the driver is also very high in the car. Looks like the whole car is a masterpiece (or nightmare) of packaging.

[GingerPixel]

I'm a huge fan of this project, but I do worry for them. They are going to look pretty silly if this thing is a flop, and that would be a shame because everyone wants a more diverse field of close competitors.

What are folks thoughts about Nissan running a design that has significant compromises purely with an eye to win LM? Don't we want to see the whole WEC championship gain legitimacy and value?

[Fogelhund]

Disappointing to see them pack up and leave so early... does it have to be said though... one tub, rather revolutionary ideas... they crack the tub and lose valuable time... had they been prepared, like with two running tubs and a spare, they would have had double the information while testing, AND been able to stay. It really makes you scream BUDGET, BUDGET.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by GingerPixel

I'm a huge fan of this project, but I do worry for them. They are going to look pretty silly if this thing is a flop, and that would be a shame because everyone wants a more diverse field of close competitors.

What are folks thoughts about Nissan running a design that has significant compromises purely with an eye to win LM? Don't we want to see the whole WEC championship gain legitimacy and value?

I think the WEC has legitimacy and value and the only way to gain form here on out is to add better race tracks cough Sebring cough Fia grade 1 tracks are pretty boring.

[Maelochs]

I really want this car to have a fair shot—I don't care if it succeeds or fails, I just want it to bring its best to the WEC races this season

Given that, I see this shortened test session as the worst possible outcome, and the fact that it wasn't one of the more unique systems or aspects which caused the failure, even more so (in that there wasn't enough time to really push the limits on either the FWD configuration or the kinetic flywheel.)

Nissan can claim what it likes, but there is no way it flew all the way to Sebring to run 25 laps or even two days. That car needs and that team wanted as much track time as possible; now they are trying to put on a happy face, but seriously? The car broke after 25 laps, and only managed 25 laps in two days. No amount of makeup is going to cover up those black eyes.

I hope Nissan can get everything fixed and get the track time it needs to be ready for Spa, but I am not sanguine. That's okay; as far as I can tell the car was built to work well at only one track anyway.


(Fogelhound posted while I was typing; I second everything he says.)

[Gingers4Justice]

Has this car actually run properly at all yet, in anything like the configuration it might race with? As far as I can tell, the car has been limited to installation runs and shakedown tests and it's not even done those properly.

I don't see how they can expect to beat the Kolles at Silverstone at this rate.

Which is itself ironic. After that team's shambolic 2014, everything points to them being better prepared than their direct rival and even a major manufacturer. By virtue of the absence of the two Rebellions and coughing and spluttering Nissans, there's a decent finish up for grabs!

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Disappointing to see them pack up and leave so early... does it have to be said though... one tub, rather revolutionary ideas... they crack the tub and lose valuable time... had they been prepared, like with two running tubs and a spare, they would have had double the information while testing, AND been able to stay. It really makes you scream BUDGET, BUDGET.

Makes me scream PR, PR. I keep thinking this is the G56 entry the Zeod wasn't. Like that one - the whole deal seems to be about gaining a lot of press with a weird device without actually spending the money to succeed.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Makes me scream PR, PR. I keep thinking this is the G56 entry the Zeod wasn't. Like that one - the whole deal seems to be about gaining a lot of press with a weird device without actually spending the money to succeed.

The difference here is that they've signed up to a year of this. There's isn't anywhere to hide, no "we had bad luck, this time"-type excuses.

[knighty]

yes the KERS system looks like one very heavy mother indeed........I can imagine ToroTrack-FlyBrid are now possibly frantically re-designing it as a weight reduced 2MJ system.......I'm guessing a circa 100+ Kg 6-8MJ system will reduce to the region of 40-50Kg for a 2MJ system.

I generally agree also, I would love to see this car achieve success, its a credit to the spirit of LMP racing and new technology in general

[Maelochs]

Part of me really wants to lambaste Nissan for this—spending what it must be costing for the Zeod and now this—if they aren't going to get really serious and race the things. Part of me is suggesting I hold off and see what actually happens ... but a larger part of me feels like wdave0—they are just playing for PR.

As for signing up for a year—they needed to, to get the LM entry. Doesn't mean they will run more laps than the Zeod did at any race.

I really hope Nissan is serious about this.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Disappointing to see them pack up and leave so early... does it have to be said though... one tub, rather revolutionary ideas... they crack the tub and lose valuable time... had they been prepared, like with two running tubs and a spare, they would have had double the information while testing, AND been able to stay. It really makes you scream BUDGET, BUDGET.

Same happened with Toyota in 2012 yet everybody wanted to give them leeway for 'being new'... broken chassis after Paul Ricard crash and no backups so everything delayed until LM. And three years later they're still running underbudget.

[Fogelhund]

Well, the intelligent thing to do here is hold off and see what happens... it really is too early to jump to conclusions, but the early signs certainly are concerning.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Same happened with Toyota in 2012 yet everybody wanted to give them leeway for 'being new'... broken chassis after Paul Ricard crash and no backups so everything delayed until LM. And three years later they're still running underbudget.

To be fair, Toyota did receive a lot of criticism for that mistake, even though they are new.

I am kinda ambivalent about what I think about this early ending to the testing.
Yes, it is shame and waste of testing time that this error in the tub occurs. But this is what the testing is for.
If they had another tub with them, the same error would likely appear, meaning two destroyed tubs.

This also differentiate them from the Toyota incident, where it was a crash and not a fault in the car itself.
Nissan will come out stronger from this, and they will be competitive at some point. However it is their own mistake that people expect so much from them because of their PR machine is running overdrive on what there is to expect.
(I am actually starting to wonder if Nissan ever directly has said anything about what they expect for results?)

[jswarde]

Originally Posted by knighty

yes the KERS system looks like one very heavy mother indeed........I can imagine ToroTrack-FlyBrid are now possibly frantically re-designing it as a weight reduced 2MJ system.......I'm guessing a circa 100+ Kg 6-8MJ system will reduce to the region of 40-50Kg for a 2MJ system.

I generally agree also, I would love to see this car achieve success, its a credit to the spirit of LMP racing and new technology in general

This twin Flywheel system has its roots in a single Flybrid system built and raced in 2012 by Dyson Racing - it was reported as weighing about 40kg. So I think Flybrid already have a single design that should be capable of Le Mans 4mJ capacity with weight around the 40 - 50kg level; Nissan seem to still have the option of running a single unit so it would be a surprise if they do not already have one available.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by CTD

(I am actually starting to wonder if Nissan ever directly has said anything about what they expect for results?)

Get PR goggles in

"We are aiming to win. No, we are going to win - in a very different, a very innovative and a very Nissan way"
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114091

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by CTD

(I am actually starting to wonder if Nissan ever directly has said anything about what they expect for results?)

They said they want to win Le Mans in two year's time (if memory serves me right they even said they *will* win), that's the goal they have set for themselves. So this is a very tricky position to backtrack from if this thing turns out to be a red-painted AMR-One.

That's their main problem, it's all talk with very little substance to show for it so far.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by CTD

To be fair, Toyota did receive a lot of criticism for that mistake, even though they are new.

I am kinda ambivalent about what I think about this early ending to the testing.
Yes, it is shame and waste of testing time that this error in the tub occurs. But this is what the testing is for.
If they had another tub with them, the same error would likely appear, meaning two destroyed tubs.

This also differentiate them from the Toyota incident, where it was a crash and not a fault in the car itself.
Nissan will come out stronger from this, and they will be competitive at some point. However it is their own mistake that people expect so much from them because of their PR machine is running overdrive on what there is to expect.
(I am actually starting to wonder if Nissan ever directly has said anything about what they expect for results?)

Yes, Toyota did receive similar treatment... one car in the championship, just didn't seem competitive enough, nor committed enough... and then when they went two cars....

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Yes, Toyota did receive similar treatment... one car in the championship, just didn't seem competitive enough, nor committed enough... and then when they went two cars....

After one and a half seasons

[CTD]

But that is what I though.
It is a brand new concept like others already pointed out.
There are so many things that can go wrong. Yes, they made some obvious weird choices concerning the engine displacement, but if they believe that the concept will work I will continue to give them credit for it, until it is at least one year old, or they themselves say it is flawed. Development takes a lot of time, and will give you many unexpected problems, and Nissan will encounter more because of their different concept.

But as long as Nissan is not saying that they will stand on the top of the podium this year, I won't talk bad about Nissans efforts. There is a lot of time to fix a lot of issues, if they first expect to win next year.

[Gingers4Justice]

They've got 78 hours of racing conditions ahead of them before Le Mans 2016. CTD has a very good point - it's early days yet. The car won't be judged by how it performs now or even this season.

[Maelochs]

I don't care if they don't win a race anywhere this year, so long as I get the impression that they are really trying, and are taking their effort seriously.

Obviously Nissan couldn't care less what I think, but ...

And it doesn't matter that this is an innovative and very unusual project; I want every factory entry to be a full-on serious effort. If budget constraints are such that the project has no hope of success, I will certainly criticize that. If the budget is small and the team comes through anyway, hoorah.

So far ... as Fogle says, reason dictates patience and observation.

I had thought the Flybrid Dyson used was electrical whereas the Nissan's was kinetic? I talked to the Flybrid tech at PLM a couple years back, and looked at the cutaway on display ... but I have the memeory of a senile guppy.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

They've got 78 hours of racing conditions ahead of them before Le Mans 2016. CTD has a very good point - it's early days yet. The car won't be judged by how it performs now or even this season.

Of course it will be judged by this years performance. They might have said that the real goal is for 2016 (sorta - in the 2014 Autosport article they were still relatively bullish about 2015) but merely saying that will get the expectations way higher than with Toyota in their first year. Furthermore their eternal PR words will get mixed up along the way.

Also if it performs as horribly like AMR-One - which I seriously doubt for the record - it doesn't matter at what point of the development curve the chassis is, reaction wise.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by jswarde

This twin Flywheel system has its roots in a single Flybrid system built and raced in 2012 by Dyson Racing - it was reported as weighing about 40kg. So I think Flybrid already have a single design that should be capable of Le Mans 4mJ capacity with weight around the 40 - 50kg level; Nissan seem to still have the option of running a single unit so it would be a surprise if they do not already have one available.

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