My Tracks

[Fish_Flake]

Originally posted by Fish_Flake
I was watching NASCAR qualifying this afternoon, and I decided to make some modifications to the Watkins Glen International circuit. Watkins Glen is still to most the spiritual home of American road racing, and the racing surface is top-notch. The infamous blue Armco is dangerously close to the asphalt, though, and that presents safety hazards to open-wheel cars and sports car prototypes that keep all but GT and Touring Cars to race there. I am doing nothing to the track itself, but rather pushing back the Armco to add more run-off in most of the corners.

The first problem comes on the old pit straight after the 90. There is a huge gravel trap outside the first turn, but the barrier on the outside of the track juts in sharply past the run-off, and nearly reaches the track. The barrier is there to protect the access road that crosses the circuit at this point. I would push back the Armco away from the track surface to where it would pose less of a danger.

Next are the Esses. The Armco here stands on the exact edge of the track on both sides. Any accident that would occur here in a Formula 1 or champ car would be chaotic considering the high speeds they would take through this section, which is comparable to driving the Craner Curves at Donington backwards. The best thing to do is to push the outside barrier back just past the three grandstand structures that overlook the entry to Turn 2. Then, push back the inner barrier that is on the outside to Turn 3. The exit of Turn 3 is still very hairy due to the tunnel that goes under the track here, but it should not pose much of a problem. Push back the Armco outside Turn 4 just a little, and that's that for the opening of the lap. More to come later...

Now, only for the graphic...Blue lines for the remaining and modified Armco, yellow line for the removed Armco

[Fish_Flake]

Now, onward to the second part of the Glen. The back straight is perfect as it is, but the Loop needs a little more run-off so the more premier series don't have to use the chicane. Not that I'm getting rid of the Inner Loop: that's just fine to watch stock and touring cars jump over the curbs there, but for ALMS, CART, or even Formula 1, it just won't do. The makings of a sufficient gravel trap are in place at the entrance to the turn, but the Armco meets the track edge again near the apex. There's some room between the current barrier and the trees outside the circuit to move the Armco enough to add a safe run-off area in case something goes wrong.

The Boot is an absolute horror. I'm surprised that even Grand-Am would run on that piece of track, considering how fast it is and how little run-off is availible. The first turn in the Boot is scary just to look at. Cars are coming into the turn full blast, downhill, with a ton of steam from the exit of the Loop, and there is nothing but blue Armco on either side. Not only does there need to be room on the outside of the corner, but on the inside as well, because this turn is completely blind. To do this, trees will have to be cut down on both sides of the track to allow for the run-off, but if the environmentalists have a cow, just plant some more somewhere else in the infield.
For the second corner in the boot, a job similar to that done on the Loop needs to be done; there is run-off at the entry to the corner but not at the apex or the exit. Once again, there is enough room between the current barrier and the trees to just push the barriers back without much of a problem. The third turn in the Loop needs no alterations.

The lefthander that connects the Boot back to the main circuit needs a little work. The fence that lines the main straight needs to be pushed back to allow for some run-off to the exit of the left-hander. There is a small berm outside the track here, so some minor earthworks will be needed.

[bcobbus]

You read my mind when it comes to modifications to the Glen! In fact I came onto the tread for that very purpose just now, I guess you beat me too it Fish! The tunnel that runs under the esses can be lengthened and covered up, as the new tunnel at Sears Point would be similar. That way more run off room could be there. Also what I would change about Watkins Glen is the armco they have all the way around the track. That is a major safety issue with open wheel / open cockpit cars, and I'm surprised they have not done away with it sooner...

[Fish_Flake]

Before somebody says "It's a historic landmark, it can't change," the National Register of Historic Places is in place to protect sites of significance from being sold to developers and plowed over to make way for some townhouses and a shopping mall (like what happened to Riverside). This construction, though, is a restoration, which is perfectly legal, and I think can even be paid for by the government, which a certain Mr. Ecclestone always appreciates.

I have one more area to work out; Turns 10, 11, and the start-finish straight. Once again, the exterior barrier is pushed back inside Turn 10 to allow for a better view of the corner and to give a driver who loses his rear end at the exit a few more feet. The barrier is pushed back on the outside of Turn 11 for run-off in that turn. I think there is a berm there, too, so some more minor earthworks may be needed. There is also a new pit entrance before Turn 11.

Finally, there is the matter of the grandstand and garage facilities on the main straight. The old Formula 1 pits are still there, but they are used for nothing but a foundation for the box seats atop them. The grandstands are small and wooden. Obviously, if a world championship event ever returns to the Glen, some upgrades are in store. New pit garages and the mandatory suites are necessary, as well is a more advanced grandstand. Nothing too imposing, that would not blend in with the scenery or the general mood of the track, but something that isn't antique.

[DNQ]

Some very useful modification to the Glen there, good work.

[Lee Janotta]

Actually Fish, As I understand it, the Armco _can't_ be changed under the current historic protections. ISC has tried.

Good mods, but the new pit-in you propose wouldn't work. The FIA requires a chicane or a hairpin to slow cars entering the pits. Plus, it'd change the racing line through the corner, as everyone cuts under the yellow paint at the apex of the corner.

Also, there's very little you'd be able to do structurally to the grandstands or the garages.

Sorry.

[Fish_Flake]

So, in other words, the special zoning given to it in the 1980s to keep the circuit from being sold, closed, and turned into a Wal-Mart means it can't make the necessary upgrades to modernize it and enable it to host any major event besides NASCAR? That's bull spit, and something should be changed about that. If a lighthouse in North Carolina tips over in a hurricane, no expense will be spared in order to put it back up again, but the Glen can't even move the Armco back 100 feet to add a gravel trap when nothing's in its way...Will someone explain how that makes any sense?

As for the pit-in, it wouldn't be much different than Barcelona's, and that seems acceptable enough. Who comes up with these rules?

Meh, worth a try.

[Magical Trevor]

Look what I found in my latest issue of Automobile magazine:


It's a MINI advertisement, titled
BROOKLYN MOVIE DROP SUPER MOTORWAY
Caption:Created by MINI owner Eric Burnard while returning rented DVDs. Features the Grand Army Plaza roundabout, Prospect Place back straightaway, and infamous Flatbush Avenue hairpin. Start your engines. LET'S MOTOR.

1>Start/Finish
2>Watch for squirrels near apex
3>110 degree 2nd gear lefthander
4>Brake early for hairpin
5>Watch for lapped traffic

END Caption
Looks good to me, but it needs a pitlane. Any suggestions?

[Magical Trevor]

I thought of something like this, but is it too much of a shortcut?

[DNQ]

Yeah, that's probbaly too much of shortcut, I reckon the best area for a pitlane would probably be somewhere in that grassy bit in the bottom right of the circuit.

[Magical Trevor]

If you have any problem seeing the other streets, here's a map:


And here's another pitlane suggestion from me:

As you can see DNQ, there are no roads in that lower-right section of the picture. Also, no roads can be constructed because that is part of the park.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by Fish_Flake
So, in other words, the special zoning given to it in the 1980s to keep the circuit from being sold, closed, and turned into a Wal-Mart means it can't make the necessary upgrades to modernize it and enable it to host any major event besides NASCAR? <snip> Will someone explain how that makes any sense?

It's New York State. Everything quickly becomes tangled up in red tape, even if you grease all the right palms. As I understand it, well-meaning enthusiasts crammed the protected status down the owner's throats, and even the monolithic International Speedway Corp (with the full weight of NASCAR behind it) has been unable to get that status lifted or modified. They've wanted to make changes for years similar to what you've suggested.

That's my understanding of the situation, though it's admittedly not conclusive.

Who comes up with these rules?

The usual suspects in the FIA. Bernie, Max, and that faceless and brainless mob known as the World Motorsport Council, who I'm now 100% certain have _never_ seen an auto race in their entire lives.

[Lustigson]

Hi guys, I'm back from my week-long vacation in Spain. Too bad I missed the historic 100th page and 2500th post marks.

Lee, could you make a total overview map of your changes to The Glen? I'd like to see that. And maybe then we could all have a go at it.

[Lustigson]

I had a try at The Glen. I tightend the first corner, altered the chicane, made the Toe more like Parabolica, tightened the exit of The Boot as well as the (as far is I know unnamed) penultimate corner. Furthermore I added some gravel and lengthened the pitlane. I'm not sure all the changes would be allowed, but, hey, who cares about authorities.

[Speedworx]

Not a fan of The Glen, but nice changes Lustigson.

Shame NASCAR doesn't use the full track.

[the_royksopp]

The Glen

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by Lustigson
Lee, could you make a total overview map of your changes to The Glen? I'd like to see that. And maybe then we could all have a go at it.

Watkins Glen doesn't need any changes, just upgrades for safety and facilities. The track layout is still fantastic after all these years.

[Lustigson]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Watkins Glen doesn't need any changes, just upgrades for safety and facilities. The track layout is still fantastic after all these years.

Agreed. But do you reckon the current lay-out would provide any overtaking opportunities? If not, Tightening a few corners would, in my honest opinion, do little harm to the track itself.

[Chaynes321]

Nice changes to the glen Lustig, i made a few more ...

[the_royksopp]

Na, CG, i dont like your changes... You remove two overtaking possibilities that Lustig made...

[Lee Janotta]

There are quite a few places to pass. Tightening turn 1 is a poor idea. It's really not that wide a turn to begin with... Just not Tilke-tight. Which isn't a bad thing.

If I _had_ to reprofile a corner, it'd be the last left-hander before the pits, and yes, that might work better if it were a bit tighter.

You need to see a track like this in 3 dimensions to appreciate it.

http://www.tidewatersportscarclub.com/movie/wgi.mpg

[Lustigson]

Wow, cool movie, Lee. The Glen is even better then it looks from a map. I reckon that modern F1 cars would go quite fast around those bends.

[Lustigson]

Here's my final (?) version of Watkins Glen. I added the high-grip tarmac run-off and the barriers as well as the paddock area.

[Omega99]

Here's a challenge for you guys: Design a circuit that runs through the streets of my hometown, Calgary, Alberta, Canada. The more plausible the better, which won't be easy because of the fact that the city is mostly residential neighborhoods, and downtown is all tall office towers... Good luck! Work your magic!

[Lustigson]

Now THAT's a challenge: design a street circuit in a city that you don't know!

Here's my (first) try: at the airport.