[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[TF110]

A whole -30kg difference doesn't seem like much of a weight loss for hybrid teams. A little disappointed, maybe they'll have draft 6 and change it again...

[gregtummer]

Overall, I think privateers should be 50kg lighter than manufacturers in each category.

[Lorenzo S]

Originally Posted by Laurent

I can confirm that the teams have recently received Draft 5 regulations : 850 for no-ERS and 870 for ERS.

20kg! Ridiculous weight difference for this category of racing, especially as the drivers weight is not even included. The difference between Anthony Davison and Alex Wurz is already 26 kg!! The ACO sure want to even up the field to help attract privateers. Not. I wonder if Rebellion will even bother..?

[TF110]

There has to be someone in the group of rule makers that has sense of this. Why not 800kg for privateers and 850kg for factories? Even that is not much of a weight loss, so -30kg is a laugh.

[Lorenzo S]

Originally Posted by TF110

... so -30kg is a laugh.

Are you having trouble with your keyboard? That's the second time you've said 30kg. No matter how you slice it, the regulation change is +20 kg and the difference between class (with/without ERS) is 20 kg!!!


EDIT: Ooops. I've just realised. You're talking about the old 900 kg limit aren't you...

Carry on, nothing to see here

[gwyllion]

Another article summarizing the 2013 and 2014 rules: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...p1-regulations

[deggis]

^ New things or at least not so talked about things:

While not yet fully defined, the ACO and FIA are also working to limit testing, increase the lifetime of engines and is evaluating the potential reduction of crew members and equipment through further new cost-cutting policies.

All privateers will also continue to benefit from having their own sub-category in the WEC, with the FIA Endurance Trophy for LMP1 Privateer expected to retain its separate podium in 2014 as well.

Meh. Dilutes both championships.

[gregtummer]

This is getting ridiculous.

We don't want this to turn into F1.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

This is getting ridiculous.

Budgets are.

We don't want this to turn into F1.

"FIA this and that"... I bet these are also ACO initiatives especially when they have already set a precedent for those type of things (Le Mans has had a engine limit for some years now, the stupid wheelgun rule made for 2009 etc).

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

Budgets are.

Really? I doubt that. Who's spending ridiculously?

[deggis]

...are getting.

Those things mentioned are for 2014 and after. Probably better to plan them beforehand.

[TF110]

One year away won't break anyone's pockets. If it does then your organization isn't very sound. P2 is set, P1 privateers look to be using the same equipment as this year. GTE doesn't have budget issues, no reason to if BOP is going on . P1 factory squads are where its at, and those are factory squads who can afford to spend. 2014 season is still over 16 months away, plenty of time for deciding how much is going to be spent. I think they'll be ok.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Laurent

I can confirm that the teams have recently received Draft 5 regulations : 850 for no-ERS and 870 for ERS.

Another confirmation: http://twitpic.com/bhmuee

I still find it a strange decision. What easier way to improve fuel consumption than lowering the minimum weight?

[Lorenzo S]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Another confirmation: http://twitpic.com/bhmuee

I still find it a strange decision. What easier way to improve fuel consumption than lowering the minimum weight?

Maybe it is merely a safety decision. The lower the weight, the lower the potential "take-off" speed. Seeing as the ACO has not fundamentally altered the aero rules, the prototypes are still reliant on over body downforce to keep the cars "stuck" to the ground.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Another confirmation: http://twitpic.com/bhmuee

I still find it a strange decision. What easier way to improve fuel consumption than lowering the minimum weight?

I don't get it either.

[deggis]

Maybe Audi & Toyota simply lobbied: "we can't make it happen". Similarly to when the weight for P1 suddenly increased to 930 kg when Audi couldn't make their first diesel engine lighter...

[gregtummer]

So are the rules basically the same for 2013?

Audi #1 turned a 3:23 something for qualifying at Le Mans this year.

If the rules stay the same, we might be near 200 seconds (3:20) for the pole time again next year.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

One year away won't break anyone's pockets.

That's naive thinking. The budgets might be now ok, but they will keep rising and they will probably keep doing that even with restrictions. The point of the restrictions is probably to make the rise somewhat gradual, controlled and slower.

There must be already quite big difference in budgets to previous years.

If it does then your organization isn't very sound. P2 is set, P1 privateers look to be using the same equipment as this year. GTE doesn't have budget issues, no reason to if BOP is going on . P1 factory squads are where its at, and those are factory squads who can afford to spend. 2014 season is still over 16 months away, plenty of time for deciding how much is going to be spent. I think they'll be ok.

How especially a manufacturer just "decides" how much they're going to spend? They always have to somewhat match what the rivals are spending.

If the limitations involve reducing wheelgun-like equipments, then it's highly questionable what that is going to achieve, but at least testing limitations must be more towards factory teams, because no private team is even going to get near the limit (whatever the limit will be).

[joeb]

Originally Posted by deggis

Maybe Audi & Toyota simply lobbied: "we can't make it happen". Similarly to when the weight for P1 suddenly increased to 930 kg when Audi couldn't make their first diesel engine lighter...

I have no real data to back this up, but I think 850kg would not have been difficult for the factories to achieve. A few years ago LMP2's came in under 800kg with similar sized engines. I understand the hybrid parts weigh more, but Audi and Toyota have gone to great lengths to reduce weight throughout the chassis.

Does anybody know what an unballasted R18 or TS030 weighs? Or an ARX-03a or Lola B12 for that matter?

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by joeb

I have no real data to back this up, but I think 850kg would not have been difficult for the factories to achieve. A few years ago LMP2's came in under 800kg with similar sized engines. I understand the hybrid parts weigh more, but Audi and Toyota have gone to great lengths to reduce weight throughout the chassis.

Does anybody know what an unballasted R18 or TS030 weighs? Or an ARX-03a or Lola B12 for that matter?

I think I read that an unballasted R18 weights 750kg.

[deggis]

R18 2011: 850 kg, R18 Ultra 2012: 750 kg
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=3496

Of course important thing to note that in 2014 there will be two HY systems.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

That's naive thinking. The budgets might be now ok, but they will keep rising and they will probably keep doing that even with restrictions. The point of the restrictions is probably to make the rise somewhat gradual, controlled and slower.

There must be already quite big difference in budgets to previous years.


How especially a manufacturer just "decides" how much they're going to spend? They always have to somewhat match what the rivals are spending.

If the limitations involve reducing wheelgun-like equipments, then it's highly questionable what that is going to achieve, but at least testing limitations must be more towards factory teams, because no private team is even going to get near the limit (whatever the limit will be).

I'm not going to argue with you, but there's more interest now than there has been in the past half decade. That shows more than what anyone here thinks of escalating costs.

On the topic of minimum weight, the cars will be slimmer, less drag, so I don't see how they could have trouble meeting 850kg, or even 800kg. Smaller engines and newer hybrid systems will definitely help.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by deggis

Maybe Audi & Toyota simply lobbied: "we can't make it happen". Similarly to when the weight for P1 suddenly increased to 930 kg when Audi couldn't make their first diesel engine lighter...

They don't have to run at minimum weight if they can't If their hybrid equipment is too heavy, well, tough luck... and bad PR. There's no minimum weight for road cars. It seems manufacturers are trying to prove the superiority of their new tech through legislation these days. That reeks...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

I think I read that an unballasted R18 weights 750kg.

Originally Posted by deggis

R18 2011: 850 kg, R18 Ultra 2012: 750 kg
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=3496

Of course important thing to note that in 2014 there will be two HY systems.

Thanks, 750 kg is light. So I wonder what the motivation for increasing the minimum weight was? Couldn't have been an inability to make an 850kg weight.

[Maelochs]

Maybe the increased weight will make it easier for smaller teams using bigger engines or heavier, less developed ERS to compete--teams which don't have Audi's Ultra technology.