Future Grands Prix?

[S griffin]

No doubt the biosphere might be needed a little longer

[Casper]

I have mentioned that the Australian Tennis Open was going ahead but I think they are starting to regret that decision and cancelling the F1 was the best thing to do. If they hadn't done that it is a fair bet that some of the visitors would have finished up in hard quarantine as some tennis players have done. There are comments attached to the linked article and nearly all without exception are extremely critical of the event going ahead. It would not have been good for the reputation of F1 in this country if a similar situation had arisen.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/...16-p56ulj.html

[kurski]

Mika Salo said that he asked Ross Brawn, could F1 go to Kymi Ring in Finland if some other race gets postponed and apparently that could be a real option in that situation.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by kurski

Mika Salo said that he asked Ross Brawn, could F1 go to Kymi Ring in Finland if some other race gets postponed and apparently that could be a real option in that situation.

That's very curious given that the Kymi Ring doesn't feature on the current FIA circuit grading list (Dec 2020) at all
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...circuits_0.pdf

[S griffin]

I think that's a long shot, although at least F1 has a good following in Finland, so can see why that would be considered

[bjohnsonsmith]

According to RacingCircuits.info, the KymiRing has FIA Grade 2 classification.

https://www.racingcircuits.info/euro...l#.YDaxT2_LenE

[S griffin]

Well that’s something it’s in favour. I’m sure there’s a chance of it happening in the future, but I’d be surprised if it was to happen this year or the next few years

[Born Racer]

Off the top of my head, no other country has produced so many world champions (3) and not had a Grand Prix.

[kurski]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

According to RacingCircuits.info, the KymiRing has FIA Grade 2 classification.

https://www.racingcircuits.info/euro...l#.YDaxT2_LenE

Their track is FIA Grade 1.

[Peter Mallett]

According to your link: "the 4.6km main track has been designed in accordance with FIA Grade 2 classification, but by modifying the safety areas, it could be adapted to meet F1 requirements."

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by kurski

Their track is FIA Grade 1.

So the back and forth on this got me interested. As best as I can tell there is no definitive answer if you look at online resource. Or... the most definitive answer (FIA) says "Not Grade 1"

* The KymiRing Wikipedia page says "FIA Grade 1"
* The Wikipedia page that lists FIA Grade 1 tracks lists KymiRing, but also has a footnote that says as of 2021-02-24 it is not listed in the FIA list, but was built to FIA Grade 1 standards.
* The KymiRing website says "Classified by the governing body for world motorsport, FIA: Grade 1" and then follows it up with "The classification material was produced by Apex Circuit Design Ltd in co-operation with Kymi Ring Oy." (the track designer) and finally "The classification was approved in September 2014." (before completion of the circuit!)

The problem is. I don't think the classification process works that way. I think in the end, the classification is only granted after an inspection by FIA. So building to Grade 1 does not mean you are classified by FIA as Grade 1. This is based upon me being at a presentation presented one of the head guys at the VIR track in Virginia a few years ago about how they made improvements to upgrade their FIA Grade level. There was back and forth during the process, but also a final inspection of "as built" and not just a self certification that our design plans "meet your spec".

The newest copy (as of 2020-12-15) of the FIA Licensed Circuits (which lists the grades for each track) does not list KymiRing at all (Grade 1 or otherwise) Download the PDF from here https://www.fia.com/circuit-safety

What do I suspect is reality? Either they have recently gone through FIA certification and the FIA documents are not up to date, or KymiRing has just not yet gone through any type of final FIA certification and they are stretching the truth a bit by claiming "designed to Grade 1 spec" as "FIA Grade 1 certification". I don't follow MotoGP, so I didn't dig into the topic of FIM certification.

If the track does fit Grade 1, I assume in a pinch it could get its certification if it was an emergency candidate for 2021 F1 race.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

The newest copy (as of 2020-12-15) of the FIA Licensed Circuits (which lists the grades for each track) does not list KymiRing at all (Grade 1 or otherwise).

Richard

I must admit that I was surprised at how many circuits exist that meet Grade 1 certification on 2020's list, so as to satisfy my curiosity, just in case the 2020 list had been increased to meet the sudden prediction that the world found itself in, I looked at 2018's list and that had 41 circuits listed.

This, as I say, did surprise me as, for example, I wasn't aware that Estoril was accepted as being of Grade 1 classification, yet it was on both the 2018 and '19 lists.

One lives and learns!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I must admit that I was surprised at how many circuits exist that meet Grade 1 certification on 2020's list, so as to satisfy my curiosity, just in case the 2020 list had been increased to meet the sudden prediction that the world found itself in, I looked at 2018's list and that had 41 circuits listed.

This, as I say, did surprise me as, for example, I wasn't aware that Estoril was accepted as being of Grade 1 classification, yet it was on both the 2018 and '19 lists.

One lives and learns!

Yes, it is surprising how many are Grade 1.

I looked at the related regulations listed on that same page and they also have the download for Appendix O of the sporting regulations which speaks to Licensing details. And it is clear that there is fees (money) and physical inspections. When looking at the Grade 1 list, you will see the expiration dates range from late 2020 to late 2023. I didn't see in Appendix O as to the duration (time) for a circuit license. But it is clear that it will need to be periodically reviewed (more time and money) and given the dates above, maybe the duration is around three years.

So it may make sense that if KymiRing is NOT expecting to hold an event that required Grade 1 anytime soon, they may want to delay getting that certification until later. So that way they will get to enjoy the full three years (or whatever the duration is) for the certification. But if they have no FIA certification at all, then they can't host ANY event that is on the FIA International Sporting calendar (F1, WEC, WTCC, FE, F2, F3, etc.) I have no idea what is on KymiRing's professional racing calendar for this year and if any are FIA events that require circuit licensing.

Richard

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I must admit that I was surprised at how many circuits exist that meet Grade 1 certification on 2020's list, so as to satisfy my curiosity, just in case the 2020 list had been increased to meet the sudden prediction that the world found itself in, I looked at 2018's list and that had 41 circuits listed.

This, as I say, did surprise me as, for example, I wasn't aware that Estoril was accepted as being of Grade 1 classification, yet it was on both the 2018 and '19 lists.

One lives and learns!

I think the increase in numbers came about, when the FIA did away with the old Grade1T (Testing but not racing) classification with those becoming lumped into the single Grade 1 Classification.

I suspect that's where the likes of Estoril, a bit dated and not really suitable for hosting a modern F1 paddock, but perfect for single team tests had "downgraded" from Grade 1 to 1T, but then then became Grade 1 again under the single classification.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

I think the increase in numbers came about, when the FIA did away with the old Grade1T (Testing but not racing) classification with those becoming lumped into the single Grade 1 Classification.

I suspect that's where the likes of Estoril, a bit dated and not really suitable for hosting a modern F1 paddock, but perfect for single team tests had "downgraded" from Grade 1 to 1T, but then then became Grade 1 again under the single classification.

For Estoril, the upgrade came while Grade 2+1T was still a thing. In the FIA circuit list of November 27, 2012, Estoril is 2+1T. On the list of February 6, 2015, it's Grade 1, with a license expiration date of August 7, 2016. Given that FIA circuit licenses are typically valid for three years, this suggests Estoril was upgraded in 2013.

The February 2015 list still contains eight Grade 2+1T circuits.

[wolfhound]

Missing from the FIA grade 1 circuits of the regulars include Monaco, Montreal, Singapore and Shanghai although the latter has no scheduled GP this year. Jeddah is also not on the list which F1 is due to visit for the first time in December.


https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...circuits_0.pdf

[S griffin]

It just shows that not every circuit needs to be made to the latest standard. If it’s that great, why change? Although I am surprised to see Shanghai not on the Grade 1 list, less surprised about Singapore because, unlike say Sochi or Valencia it is a proper street circuit, despite it being a 21st Century circuit

I do wonder about Saudi, I am still to be 100 percent convinced the GP will go ahead

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Missing from the FIA grade 1 circuits of the regulars include Monaco, Montreal, Singapore and Shanghai although the latter has no scheduled GP this year. Jeddah is also not on the list which F1 is due to visit for the first time in December.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...circuits_0.pdf

Here's the deal: The pandemic has also impacted FIA operations. Before the pandemic, FIA circuit licenses were good for three years, and then circuits had to renew. With the pandemic, FIA appears to be doing the minimum needed to keep things afloat — and that’s granting one year extensions to allow racing to happened. As an example, Imola’s license was to expire on June 17, 2020; FIA just extended it by a year to June 17, 2021.

License expiration dates for the tracks mentioned above were:
Monaco: May 26, 2020
Montreal: June 12, 2020
Sepang: October 1, 2020
Shanghai: March 21, 2020

There was no race at Monaco or Montreal, so need to do anything yet. I have no doubt's that Sepang and Shanghai's licenses will be reinstated/renewed as needed.

[tux]

Not sure we’re going to see a Saudi Arabian GP after the missile attack at the end of the race today.

The missile were intercepted by the defence system but is it a risk F1 want to take?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by tux

Not sure we’re going to see a Saudi Arabian GP after the missile attack at the end of the race today.

The missile were intercepted by the defence system but is it a risk F1 want to take?

Can you provide a link to this attack, please?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Can you provide a link to this attack, please?

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-arabia-intercepts-missile-attack-capital-76155424

[S griffin]

For me the calendar this year is missing a couple of GPs that IMHO should be on the calendar. The German GP has proved it’s still worth it’s place and you’d think that the current winning by a German manufacturer, even if the team is based in Britain would be enough, but sadly not. Also Mugello should be on there too, after a great first race last year, even if it was a bit chaotic. However the main problem for me is there are way too many GPs on the calendar. Do we really need 23 races. I think 19 would be better and there would be better quality on the calendar

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-arabia-intercepts-missile-attack-capital-76155424

This attack didn't stop the Diriyah ePrix, which was held in Riyadh, though the race was red flagged but that was due to a big collision.

https://www.motorsport.com/formula-e...paign=widget-1

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

For me the calendar this year is missing a couple of GPs that IMHO should be on the calendar. The German GP has proved it’s still worth it’s place and you’d think that the current winning by a German manufacturer, even if the team is based in Britain would be enough, but sadly not. Also Mugello should be on there too, after a great first race last year, even if it was a bit chaotic. However the main problem for me is there are way too many GPs on the calendar. Do we really need 23 races. I think 19 would be better and there would be better quality on the calendar

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/saudi-arabia-intercepts-missile-attack-capital-76155424

This story is not being reported on the BBC website, which makes me wonder whether this may be Saudi disinformation being aired to deflect some of the latest political moves by Biden towards Saudi, and the release of the Kharshoggi report by the CIA.