Grp C/Grp A/V8SC 'Where are they now?' continued... - Page 107

Jesper OH · 22 Mar 2009, 14:28 (Ref:2422043)

The DTM was based on the FIA Group A rules from 1984-1992, but a lot of differences could be found. From the outset cars above 3 litres were generally running to DTM weights – usually heavier – than what FIA required and tougher noise limits. Quite soon Turbos were ballasted especially and during 1988-1989 strangled by restrictors. 1988 also saw Mercedes running light weight hoods and doors to pare it down to the weight of the lighter BMW M3 but the various Batmobile evolutions were still Group A homologated. Opel was getting away with running non homologated cars twice: the 1988 Kadett 16V was only homologated in October that year and the same happened two years later with the Omega 24V. By 1988 I think normally aspirated engines were allowed modifications beyond Group A, but don’t know the specifics of that.
The single biggest concession given the BMW M3 was the adjustable wings front and rear was allowed to dig deeper/stick higher into the air midway through 1992. Hope this clarify a few things.

Jesper

drbob · 25 Mar 2009, 23:05 (Ref:2424856)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Towe

I'm sorry if I'm wrong re the spec of the M3 Drbob, but when Warren had it in NZ I was always lead to believe it was DTM spec and that DTM had moved away from Group A spec in 1989. I wouldn't hang your hat on the CAMS approval as there are quite a few cars that don't comply with the rules that CAMS have passed. The CAMS elegibility inspection on my own car was cursory to put it mildly. Why did the time sheets list it as Class E rather than Class B though? It is nice to see it out there and as I've said before if I had the money I'd buy it.
Are you planning on doing Oran Park in June? I won't be at The Creek in May ( no budget ) and would love to do battle with it again.
Cheers
David

the organisers mistakenly entered the M3 as a Group C car in the 2001-3000 class- presumably class E when you count down the classes ( see the programme)

DAVID PATERSON · 26 Mar 2009, 04:16 (Ref:2424982)

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbob

the organisers mistakenly entered the M3 as a Group C car in the 2001-3000 class- presumably class E when you count down the classes ( see the programme)

There were a few such mistakes, Bob Holden's Group A Corolla was shown as a Group C car also.

**GTRMagic** · 27 Mar 2009, 23:34 (Ref:2426520)

This car is cheap considering it has a reasonable provenance... a garage keeper?

profi · 27 Mar 2009, 23:51 (Ref:2426523)

My mate has just brought the ex Larkham AU betta electrical falcon.

Ill find out what chassis number it is. 1/3

Rob Bailey · 28 Mar 2009, 00:43 (Ref:2426544)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

This car is cheap considering it has a reasonable provenance... a garage keeper?

worth 50k

profi · 28 Mar 2009, 01:05 (Ref:2426549)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Bailey

worth 50k

I agree that car isnt the best example. plus its been flogged.

pete60 · 28 Mar 2009, 08:50 (Ref:2426892)

Quote:

Originally Posted by profi

My mate has just brought the ex Larkham AU betta electrical falcon.

Ill find out what chassis number it is. 1/3

Ex Larkham Mitre 10 AU or ex Longhurst Betta AU?

PhaseIII · 28 Mar 2009, 08:52 (Ref:2426893)

Maybe a Cut 'n Shut???

profi · 28 Mar 2009, 09:24 (Ref:2426919)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete60

Ex Larkham Mitre 10 AU or ex Longhurst Betta AU?

yeh i know i stuffed up was typing and not thinking.

Longhurst Betta electrical AU

But it will end up looking like winterbottoms car from last year.

Quote:

Maybe a Cut 'n Shut???

so yes your right

anthony81901 · 28 Mar 2009, 15:32 (Ref:2427170)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

This car is cheap considering it has a reasonable provenance... a garage keeper?

Pity some of the history is incorrect:

the DJR car that broke down 10 laps from the finish was DJRAU9 in 1999

the Johnson front row starting car at Bathurst in 2000 was DJRAU9

DJRAU11 finished 2nd at Bathurst in 2000, not 2001

The car that DJR ran for Will Davison in the 2005 Fujitsu series was DJRAU12, DJRAU11 being run by Greg Smith in 2005/06

**GTRMagic** · 30 Mar 2009, 09:10 (Ref:2428800)

How about this ex-DJR car

Crash Test · 30 Mar 2009, 09:18 (Ref:2428804)

That car cost a lot more than that to construct originally!

sizzle · 30 Mar 2009, 13:37 (Ref:2428998)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash Test

That car cost a lot more than that to construct originally!

And only a roller!

jd yort · 31 Mar 2009, 01:37 (Ref:2429479)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sizzle

And only a roller!

Optimistic to say the least or maybe the economic downturn has not reached WA yet....

David Towe · 31 Mar 2009, 07:16 (Ref:2429542)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd yort

Optimistic to say the least ..

Huge understatement!!

Rob Bailey · 31 Mar 2009, 07:33 (Ref:2429548)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Towe

Huge understatement!!

worth 50k

sebringimsa · 31 Mar 2009, 09:11 (Ref:2429593)

This is the overpriced one: http://www.australianmusclecarsales....vt-v8-supercar

Rob Bailey · 31 Mar 2009, 09:44 (Ref:2429631)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebringimsa

This is the overpriced one: http://www.australianmusclecarsales....vt-v8-supercar

worth 100k

mountainstar · 31 Mar 2009, 14:43 (Ref:2429812)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebringimsa

This is the overpriced one: http://www.australianmusclecarsales....vt-v8-supercar

That car has been for sale for years, or at least off and on over time.

kiwi butt · 1 Apr 2009, 05:08 (Ref:2430287)

What do you think David Paul John's Team Kiwi Racing PMM VZ is worth? You know the one, Frank, the one Radishish smacked down into that big dirt pile at Bathurst

When I saw David Paul John running a PMM Commodore, I wondered if he took bits off that car to put in it

I love you David Paul John

brown dog · 4 Apr 2009, 22:07 (Ref:2433615)

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbob

But recently I have been told that Pirro may not have driven my car. If not then it will be Charles Kwan from the same race. Charles Kwan bought the car from Schnitzer in July 1990. I do not have a picture of the car but have seen it on video. It clearly runs the sport evo aero package but in Frank de Jong's site it is recorded as a ?2.3l engine. That can't be the case given the Sport Evo Package. From Frank de Jong's site Kevin Wong ran a ?2.5l engine. in the same race with the aero package. Both were in Team Overtake.
So it is either the Pirro colours or Kwan colours.
All I have to do is pick a Group A race where it ran the aero package and 2.5l engine and run the colours for that meeting. CAMS Historic Group A regulations say you can delete any of the signwriting from the car but not add to it.

Dr Bob,
I know your car from when WG owned it here in NZ. My understanding was that it was the Wellington 1989 street race winner.But in saying that, the Nissan Mobil Wellington/Pukekohe races are probably not a good clue anyway, as it seems they allowed just about anything to run, including DTM, Aussie V8's et all just to get the numbers, and referred to them all as "Group A" cars, and I dare say they weren't checked too closely either. I think I might have some race footage from the 1989 Wellington race, I will see if any of it shows an engine shot of your car, that would give a clue to what its spec. was originallly. After recently watching a 1989 DTM video it is clear that DTM had strayed a bit from Group A- an engine bay shot of one of the Schnitzer cars shows slide throttles, on what must have been a 2.3 engine (as you know the 2.5 wasn't homologated until 1990)
I guess you need to find out what championship your car raced in originally,and the rules that applied, to know if it was a Gp.A or DTM spec. It certainly was an early car,(ie.pre 1990) looking at the front suspension/strut tops/cage etc. and had been updated with later parts at various stages. car.(I was always told your car was a Gp.A) Do you have the original "Wagenpass?" (the german logbook)
BD

DAVID PATERSON · 6 Apr 2009, 03:37 (Ref:2434775)

Quote:

Originally Posted by brown dog

Dr Bob,
I know your car from when WG owned it here in NZ. My understanding was that it was the Wellington 1989 street race winner.But in saying that, the Nissan Mobil Wellington/Pukekohe races are probably not a good clue anyway, as it seems they allowed just about anything to run, including DTM, Aussie V8's et all just to get the numbers, and referred to them all as "Group A" cars, and I dare say they weren't checked too closely either. BD

Australia was still running Group A in 1989, CAMS 5-litre V8 class didn't exist until late 1992.

brown dog · 6 Apr 2009, 19:33 (Ref:2435425)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Australia was still running Group A in 1989, CAMS 5-litre V8 class didn't exist until late 1992.

Yes I realise that. The earlier races ran (V8) cars which were Gp.A's as you correctly pointed out.At the last NM500 in 1992 Brock ran his Holden/Chev commodore, and DJ his new EB Falcon, which were part of the new Cams 5 litre class. When I referred to "Aussie V8's" I was grouping the 5 litres and Gp.A's together,(there was a bit of both at the last races in 92) maybe I should have been more specific.

BD

**GTRMagic** · 10 Apr 2009, 08:51 (Ref:2437920)

'New' WOW Wilson BF $160k

WPS Bargwanna BF $130k

WPS/WOW Wilson BF roller $60k

Somehow I thought the WPS roller had formed the basis of the car Mr Hobson is running in the development series right now for Radspeed/V8Race.... seems not.

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