[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[BSchneiderFan]

Villeneuve certainly shone in Indy Cars, but in his stint at Williams he didn’t achieve extraordinary results given the performance of the car. Runner-up (as a rookie) then champion looks good, but half a dozen of his contemporaries (number picked at random) could have lifted the trophy with that level of advantage. His career post-1999 was utterly wasted. I sometimes forget he even drove for Renault or Sauber, and BAR was the most hubristic and grandiose endeavour which deserved to fail. Sadly it buried the career of Ricardo Zonta, whom I rated highly after his time in Formula 3000 and GTs.

[chillibowl]

He put in a couple of great years and looked a highly motivated driver.

I do think (well thinking back) that the Williams advantage was, post Newey, living off past glory.

still a great car sure but was it still class of the field in 96 and 97?

After that, with the pressure of history off of his back, he never looked the same. Maybe that or the money but it was a sad and steady decline from 98 onwards imo.

[BSchneiderFan]

Certainly it was the class of the field. Benetton had begun their downward spiral, though decent results could occasionally be wrung out of the car, like Berger winning at Hockenheim in ‘97, and in 1996 the Ferrari was a dog which Schumacher inexplicably dragged to victory; the 1997 car was better but woefully unreliable - was that the year Schuey’s car ground to a halt from pole on the formation lap at Magny Cours? The McLaren-Mercedes partnership had yet to come good (remember that Häkkinen’s breakthrough Jerez win was gifted to him by none other than Jacques Villeneuve). So the Williams-Renault was very much the package to have.

[bjohnsonsmith]

It all went horribly wrong when he joined BAR in 1999, scoring no points that season. It got a little better in 2000 1nd 2001, when he finished 7th in both years but after that, it was pretty much downhill.

[BSchneiderFan]

BAR was a folie de grandeur on the part of Villeneuve, Craig Pollock and Adrian Reynard, and their failure was nemesis to the hubris of talking about winning their first race. But we are drifting far off-topic...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

BAR was a folie de grandeur on the part of Villeneuve, Craig Pollock and Adrian Reynard, and their failure was nemesis to the hubris of talking about winning their first race. But we are drifting far off-topic...

Indeed we are, so bringing it back on topic, with Martini leaving Williams what potential sponsors are on the horizon?

[Moneyseeker]

Christian Slyt from Formula Money who writes on the business side of F1 reporting that by losing Stroll and Martini and if they finish last in the constructors, Williams face combined loss in revenue of $66M dollars. That is a big hole to fill.

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[BSchneiderFan]

That is a hell of a lot of money. One new sponsor is unlikely to cover that. Williams marketing people had better get their act together.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

That is a hell of a lot of money. One new sponsor is unlikely to cover that. Williams marketing people had better get their act together.

Really difficult sell too ...

[Skam85]

Hello Sergio...

[BSchneiderFan]

Could happen. What is Pérez worth to a team? Fifteen million bucks sticks in my head but I could have made that up.

[broadrun96]

What kind of contract did Williams have with Stroll? Was it long term or year-to-year cause if it was long term I could see him paying them directly AND sending a driver to Williams to get out of the deal.

[BSchneiderFan]

That would be win-win for Williams if it meant they could replace Lance with someone chosen purely on merit (though I don’t think he’s as bad as some people make out, just inexperienced). My eye would be on Russell. Though Sirotkin/Russell would still be a very green partnership. But, Pérez aside, there aren’t many experienced drivers going at the moment.

[Moneyseeker]

Paddy Lowe said prior to Stroll snr buying FI that Williams 'hoped' to retain Stroll for 2019 but neither side was committed. So that implies there was no agreement for 2019, so presumably no payment to Williams if he leaves..

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[S griffin]

I think Williams could do a lot worse than sign Checo for 2019, he's a talented driver with plenty of experience

[Moneyseeker]

Would he want to go there though, you would plenty of confidence that Williams understood their problems and didn't simply replicate them on the 2019 car. In one of Gary Andersons pieces he outlines actually how easy it is to carry problems over to your new car as some the philosophy is ingrained, which is why you need to new people in. He cites (I believe) Toyota in F1 as one that allegedly produced a car year after year with the same faults as the first one.


Would you stick your career and $20M on the line in the hope that Paddy had got it right this time?

[Akrapovic]

After recent developments, whenever I read the thread title, this is all I can think of.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

In one of Gary Andersons pieces he outlines actually how easy it is to carry problems over to your new car as some the philosophy is ingrained, which is why you need to new people in. He cites (I believe) Toyota in F1 as one that allegedly produced a car year after year with the same faults as the first one.

thast about the nicest thing anyone has ever said about Jarno Trulli!

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Would you stick your career and $20M on the line in the hope that Paddy had got it right this time?

jokes aside...sadly i wouldnt take that bet for 2019.

[bjohnsonsmith]

It looks like there is the possibility, Williams could end up in the same situation as Force India.

[LavidaLoca]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It looks like there is the possibility, Williams could end up in the same situation as Force India.

Any chance to see Williams ending up as Mercedes Junior team with Ocon and Russell?

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by LavidaLoca

Any chance to see Williams ending up as Mercedes Junior team with Ocon and Russell?

Not sure Williams can afford to lose Sirotkin’s SMP money.

[broadrun96]

Well admitting you have a problem is a good first step and buying the engine (sorry power unit) and transmission combo instead of building your own seems like a good start. Maybe they will be more willing to try other things and have an open seat for one of the MB juniors.

[chillibowl]

if i was Williams i would saddle the now currently pointless RPFI with Stroll for the remainder of the season.

[Moneyseeker]

I imagine the deal is done and will take effect in Singapore...

Originally Posted by chillibowl

if i was Williams i would saddle the now currently pointless RPFI with Stroll for the remainder of the season.

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[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I imagine the deal is done and will take effect in Singapore...

smart if true!

who do they use then?

request the driver who lost their RPFI seat or give Kubica a shot?

certainly with Kubica you get a great story but if he comes in a nails it, then the team look like idiots for wasting half the season.