[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

The return of the option tyre isn't a good thing as far as I'm concerned - it doesn't really add anything as you know cars running the unfavoured tyre will go backwards through the field and drivers will just be 'managing the tyre'.

Ugghhh noooooo. Completely agreed, just means drivers have to waste a race going backwards, there's no strategy to it, and the commentary is almost exclusively talking about the tyres.

Even with the hybrid not being perfect, I don't think there's been one moment this season where the option tyres have been missed.

If it's truly an option, then that's fine, but the idea of forcing a driver onto a weaker tyre is just so wrong to me.

[S griffin]

Shame to lose the Ginetta junior series, by far and away the best support series, although the Minis have rivalled them for entertainment. Gonna be hard to find a replacement

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Shame to lose the Ginetta junior series, by far and away the best support series, although the Minis have rivalled them for entertainment. Gonna be hard to find a replacement

Best recently, but for me you can't beat the Clio Cup/Formula Ford/Formula BMW era

Wish we had more single seaters about tbh, they seemed to fit better than a GT ladder series anyway.

Clios were the most entertaining racing the BTCC package ever had imo, they definitely were a big part of the fact that the BTCC always has been the best days racing out there.

Hopefully it still will be in 2023

With the talk of a top ten shootout (single car qualifying....ugh, always dull to watch) maybe it means they are thinking about boosting their Saturday show with regards to streaming it or showing it on ITV4....hope so anyway.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Never mind tweaking the hybrid, just get it to work properly and reliably. Every race there is someone with problems.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

Never mind tweaking the hybrid, just get it to work properly and reliably. Every race there is someone with problems.

I assure you - everyone involved with implementing the hybrid system is working very hard to deliver a better level of reliability.

That doesn't mean that the deployment criteria should be overlooked though. It's a learning year over what effect the system has on the racing - remember the ballast system was continually being adjusted throughout its use.

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by codename_47

Best recently, but for me you can't beat the Clio Cup/Formula Ford/Formula BMW era

I have been to a TOCA meeting for a good couple of years now but I always catch the TV coverage and it's sad to see the Ginetta Juniors go.

Back when I used to go ever round back in the mid-2000's we always used to make sure were around to watch the Clio's and FBMW as they were good entertainment and there was some good talent that came through as well. It will be interesting to see what replaces the Ginetta's.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I assure you - everyone involved with implementing the hybrid system is working very hard to deliver a better level of reliability.

That doesn't mean that the deployment criteria should be overlooked though. It's a learning year over what effect the system has on the racing - remember the ballast system was continually being adjusted throughout its use.

I don't doubt they are but to have this many issues after a full year of testing and the number of meetings we've had shows something is fundamentally wrong with the concept IMO.

The only tweaks that should be made are ones that lead to more reliability. Performance and the "show" have to be secondary considerations until reliability is as close to 100% as humanly possible.

[porsche962fan]

back in the days when there was real nail biting racing lap after lap with no stupid gimmicks and more robust cars and drivers could realy tell how they felt but of course things are going to plan... we have real exiting touring car racing now...

from 11.30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPJaDGYV72w

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

back in the days when there was real nail biting racing lap after lap with no stupid gimmicks and more robust cars and drivers could realy tell how they felt but of course things are going to plan... we have real exiting touring car racing now...

from 11.30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPJaDGYV72w

So firstly - before I respond - let me say that I totally understand where you are coming from in wanting that type of racing. I can see the appeal - but in terms of 2023, getting something anything like that is near impossible.

And now for the truth:

That race you put forward as 'real nail biting racing lap after lap' was a bigger gimmick than anything BTCC does today. The article I linked above explains why that 1994 AMC season was more like WWE wrestling than Touring Car Racing.

Go back 21 seconds from the timestamp you suggested and look at the qualifying results. Then ask yourself - how can cars with such a performance differential in qualifying produce close racing?

[Evantra]

MB Motorsport hoping to return to two cars next year.

https://twitter.com/btcc/status/1573...830957059?s=21

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

MB Motorsport hoping to return to two cars next year.

https://twitter.com/btcc/status/1573...830957059?s=21

Interesting - and thanks for the link.

It will be intriguing to see whether that means away from WSR (maybe in a Ciceley mould)?

[Robin Marriott]

Gow’s comment in the reverse grid draw seem to suggest that there won’t be a junior championship until 2024, so maybe whatever replaces Ginetta next season will just be temporary.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Gow’s comment in the reverse grid draw seem to suggest that there won’t be a junior championship until 2024, so maybe whatever replaces Ginetta next season will just be temporary.

There's not many other than the JSCC and Fiestas? If they wanted something with modern cars (unless I am missing one) it would need to be a new championship, perhaps explaining the year's gap?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Interesting - and thanks for the link.

It will be intriguing to see whether that means away from WSR (maybe in a Ciceley mould)?

Quite interesting, I mean, partly I understand such a goal but on the other hand with WSR they have the best possible package.
Btw, it might be just me, but I find it a bit confusing - MB Motorsport seems like a seperate team but technically they are just a third entry of WSR but it raises questions is Dick Bennets boss of this 'team' in the same way he's boss of Team BMW entry? Is MB Motorsport also a 'factory' team of BMW? I know it's been like that for the whole year but I still find it a bit confusing

Also, interesting words from Gow at the end of the race. I wonder if the 'junior' category he's talking about would serve like a bit more 'natural' feeder to the BTCC or does he aspire to make it a category through which British talents might be heading into the international motorsport?

[crmalcolm]

Rick Parfitt just confirmed that the Infiniti has reached the end of its life, and the last few races are being seen as a 'send-off'.
So what car will the Moffats look to bring to the grid in 2023?

[Jon411]

MB Motorsport have a very good partner in WSR, if there was to be a second MB Motorsport entry for 2023 I guess it would likely be a 4th WSR run BMW using a TBL from elsewhere or one of the ones Dynamics and Speedworks gave back... I don't see where else they could go considering the Jake Hill TBL is owned by WSR unless they ran using 2 of the Hyundais or something.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Jon411

MB Motorsport have a very good partner in WSR, if there was to be a second MB Motorsport entry for 2023 I guess it would likely be a 4th WSR run BMW using a TBL from elsewhere or one of the ones Dynamics and Speedworks gave back... I don't see where else they could go considering the Jake Hill TBL is owned by WSR unless they ran using 2 of the Hyundais or something.

True and seeing how Hill has gelled with the BMW and potentially he may become a champion in two weeks' time, it'd be a mistake to walk away from the WSR package.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Rick Parfitt just confirmed that the Infiniti has reached the end of its life, and the last few races are being seen as a 'send-off'.
So what car will the Moffats look to bring to the grid in 2023?

I was thinking about this after Parfitt said that. One would also imagine that the Vauxhall Astras may be in their final season too given that the bodyshape/model has been in use for 6 seasons. There is a new Civic Type R on sale, so maybe Team Dynamics could bring that to the BTCC.

If Laser Tools want to stay with RWD, I guess their options are either to try and buy BMWs (if you can't beat them, join them) or maybe bring a brand like Audi back to the BTCC? The Audi RS 3 could be a good fit.

From a more general POV. Team HARD could probably build more CUPRAs too, but given those cars have a relative lack of performance, I can't imagine Laser Tools would be massively interested in them. I also wonder if Motorbase, Speedworks, and Excelr8 would sell the Focus, Corolla, and i30N to other teams.

Some cars that would seem to logically fit the regulations - '22 Audi RS 3, '22 Vauxhall Astra, '22 Honda Civic Type R, 3rd-gen Peugeot 308, VW Golf Mk8, Alfa Romeo Giulia

Some wildcards - the '21 Volvo V60/S60, Jaguar XE, the Mercedes-Benz A-Class/B-Class/C-Class, Renault Megane, KIA Ceed/Proceed.

Also, I'm not sure if any of the current MINI range is the correct dimensions? From memory, the MINI Hatch 5-door, and Clubman look about right.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Jon411

I don't see where else they could go considering the Jake Hill TBL is owned by WSR unless they ran using 2 of the Hyundais or something.

I would expect one of the 5 being used by HARD. to become available at the end of the year. With the Infiniti being 'retired', Parfitt will probably have a serious think about where his future lies.

I think the most likely source of a TBL is the one currently behind the HARD./Laser/Steelworks/Infiniti/Parfitt entry.

If Parfitt does stay - I think he is clear that he would want to be in a RWD car. That only really leaves the BMW (unless something new comes around).

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I would expect one of the 5 being used by HARD. to become available at the end of the year. With the Infiniti being 'retired', Parfitt will probably have a serious think about where his future lies.

I think the most likely source of a TBL is the one currently behind the HARD./Laser/Steelworks/Infiniti/Parfitt entry.

If Parfitt does stay - I think he is clear that he would want to be in a RWD car. That only really leaves the BMW (unless something new comes around).

I agree that that license is probably the most likely to change hands. It is worth saying that that TBL and one other TBL currently used by Team HARD are "owned" by Carl Boardley Motorsport and then loaned out to Team HARD to use [https://www.btcc.net/2021/12/02/next...ers-announced/].

When we get told (probably in December) of the license holders for 2023, that will probably indicate who we will see and where. I would expect a couple of changes of license holders, especially as MB have 0 licenses of their own at the moment.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by SSmith

If Laser Tools want to stay with RWD, I guess their options are either to try and buy BMWs (if you can't beat them, join them) or maybe bring a brand like Audi back to the BTCC? The Audi RS 3 could be a good fit.

Or, after a bad year and needing a new and considerable investment, perhaps the Moffats will decide it's time to explore options outside of the BTCC?

[yellowbeard]

Originally Posted by Evantra

There's not many other than the JSCC and Fiestas? If they wanted something with modern cars (unless I am missing one) it would need to be a new championship, perhaps explaining the year's gap?

The commentary team were saying there are three junior series licensed but could licence a fourth, I got the impression that Lord Gow may be looking to put his own junior series together .... a BTCC juniors type series maybe ?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by SSmith

When we get told (probably in December) of the license holders for 2023, that will probably indicate who we will see and where. I would expect a couple of changes of license holders, especially as MB have 0 licenses of their own at the moment.

I expect a few big indicators to appear at the next meeting over the future direction of a number of teams.

Typically, when teams / drivers reach the point that they have nothing left to compete for in-season, their focus looks to the year ahead. It is the chance to get a bit of a sound-bite out for potential backers, and journalists are looking for stories to carry through the off-season.

So keep your eyes and ears attuned to what comes out at Brands GP. You will get some personnel all but confirming a drive or team structure.....

[aland]

there was a 4th jnr series licensed by msuk, the scottish motor racing club using the bmw 1 series, it didnt happen in 2022 but a few cars were built... logical way is a fwd 1 make, shells that look current and budget around ginetta g40, mini challenge spec could work on treaded tyres, plus would provide the path into challenge then jcw then btcc...

lets be honest, ginetta have the path licked, start in 40 jnr, uorade car to gt5 then either go academy g55 or supercup g55 or 56 then you can go gt racing. only 2 chassis builds needed the rest is upgrades

[S griffin]

It would be good to have MB Motorsport run two cars again, they've proven their skills in running the team. They probably would just continue as a satellite team to WSR too.