Is Button good for McLaren?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JacobP

I respect Button for things he has done after Brawn GP. To move into a new team and be able to hang on next to Hamilton in 2010 was pretty good. Then the 2009 champion outright beat Hamilton in 2011 and considered 2011 his best season so far. I don't disagree with that. I don't know what happened with Button in 2012, maybe bad luck with tires or bad motivation. Hamilton was clearly above him in 2012.

Sure was, in 2012 Hamilton scored 190 points to Buttons 188.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by wnut

Sure was, in 2012 Hamilton scored 190 points to Buttons 188.

The period where JB didn't understand the tyres was where Lewis gained the most ground, but also Lewis retired a lot from the lead.

But there were occasions (Spa) where JB was untouchable.

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by wnut

Sure was, in 2012 Hamilton scored 190 points to Buttons 188.

Hamilton raced pretty much flawlessly and always near the front. He lost too many points due to engine failures and mishaps in the pits, missing on a whole bunch of podium finishes if not outright wins. The points standings don't reflect that.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by wnut

Sure was, in 2012 Hamilton scored 190 points to Buttons 188.

Originally Posted by JacobP

Hamilton raced pretty much flawlessly and always near the front. He lost too many points due to engine failures and mishaps in the pits, missing on a whole bunch of podium finishes if not outright wins. The points standings don't reflect that.

Indeed. Lewis retired whilst leading in Singapore and Abu Dhabi, plus got caught up in Nico H's spin in Brazil. That's a possible 75 points lost.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I suppose JB could've got 25 points at China if not for the horrible pit stop.

Anyway, I like Autosport's way of looking at this. He's a number 1-and-a-half driver.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by JacobP

Hamilton raced pretty much flawlessly and always near the front. He lost too many points due to engine failures and mishaps in the pits, missing on a whole bunch of podium finishes if not outright wins. The points standings don't reflect that.

Originally Posted by Mr V

Indeed. Lewis retired whilst leading in Singapore and Abu Dhabi, plus got caught up in Nico H's spin in Brazil. That's a possible 75 points lost.

I guess playing the "what if" game is the only way some people can justify their position. The facts are pretty much that in 2012 the pair were pretty much equal. What ifs cut both ways.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I guess playing the "what if" game is the only way some people can justify their position. The facts are pretty much that in 2012 the pair were pretty much equal. What ifs cut both ways.

There will always be "what if's" in F1. Lets just say that at the time of his retirements in Singapore and Abu Dhabi, he was driving a lot better than Jenson, and had it not have been for something out of his control, he'd have finished with a lot more points.

You can say what you like about "what if's" but history will show that Lewis finished 2 points ahead of Jenson, despite having 5 retirements to Button's 2 retirements.

[Peter Mallett]

Not arguing the difference in driving styles just that to suggest Lewis lost points is to suggest he had an entitlement. He didn't, to finish first first you have to finish. It's the same with Webber. If he hadn't suffered KERs failures, crashed into another car etc. he'd have been WDC.

So if anyone is trying to shoehorn the non finishes argument into the conversation then they have to accept it cuts both ways. Button's 2011 Canadian win may have been second, if Lewis hadn't crashed into him in a daft overtaking attempt. But Button won, Lewis retired.

As Mario Andretti succinctly put it; "If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle."

[Marbot]

If you go back further in F1 history, you will also find that Senna won a championship even though Prost had a higher overall points tally. It was also more than likely that unreliability back then, would definitely have had a huge effect on who became WDC.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

As Mario Andretti succinctly put it; "If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle."

Exactly.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

1 year ago and we'd never be having this conversation. McLaren and JB had finally worked out how to run the Pirelli tyres on the car and straight away he got a podium at Hockenheim, before crushing the field in Vettel-esque style at Spa from pole position. His Brazil win was yet another wet weather masterclass, and was no more lucky than Alonso inheriting the win at Valencia.

Now, because McLaren have built an awful car, suddenly both drivers come under extreme fire. Because this obviously has nothing to do with Martin Whitmarsh...

That's a good observation but iirc some of those tyre calls/stops didn't always go Button's way and I felt at the time this might be down to a certain amount of 'outside' interference from Whitmarsh, acting the team principle.

Whitmarsh comes across as very affable but he just seems a bit too worthy to be a team principle. The guy's an engineer and that's where he needs to focus.

[GT6]

button finally brings some good news back to mclaren after a disapointing year.

[flatfour]

My suspicion all season is that RedBull are getting more power from their engine allowing them to use more down force. The RedBull is incredibly stable through the same corners that upset the Ferrari and the McLaren. No doubt their aerodynamics are good but I suspect something else is happening.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GT6

button finally brings some good news back to mclaren after a disapointing year.

A bit more like the Button of old today.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

A bit more like the Button of old today.

I thought he drove well and the track certainly suits him.

[wolfhound]

Jenson Button and his wife Jessica were gassed in a robbery where they were staying in the south of France. Such a thing could have very serious consequences for peoples health besides the robbery itself. Is anybody aware of any other gassing robberies.

http://uk.motorsport.com/f1/news/jen...-france-report

P.S. I did not want to start a new thread but this is the most recent one about Button last post in 2013, interesting?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by wolfhound2

Such a thing could have very serious consequences for peoples health besides the robbery itself. Is anybody aware of any other gassing robberies?

Yes. When I lived in Spain, it happened to a couple of near neighbours. Luckily, my house was of completely different design, and they wouldn't have been able to access the A/C ayway, but in other incidents, the burglars just stuck a tube from the gas bottle through a letter box.

They were also reports that where there were houses with dogs, that they shoved meat impregnated with anaesthetic through the letter box as well.

[bella]

this happens all the time in that region too unfortunately, it's not new. some friends in antibes used to get turned over once a year in summer regardless of how high or low their security was.

the only solution around that area is to live in a house that looks like you have nothing to steal, and drive a car that says you don't have money to burn.

[schead]

What twaddle. It isn't possible to gas a villa to sleep. These rumours of gassing are simply not true. It is just journalistic sensationalism. It isn't even possible to gas a motorhome to sleep, so if the burglars pulled this off, they should bring their expertise forward to the Royal College of Anaesthetists.

http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulle...motor-vehicles

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by schead

What twaddle. It isn't possible to gas a villa to sleep. These rumours of gassing are simply not true. It is just journalistic sensationalism. It isn't even possible to gas a motorhome to sleep, so if the burglars pulled this off, they should bring their expertise forward to the Royal College of Anaesthetists.

http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulle...motor-vehicles

I can totally believe that statement about pumping in gas. It reminds me of the 2002 Moscow theater hostage situation in that it would not be easy to pull off.

This is also not something you hear of here in the US, but at the same time you do hear about home robberies in which the thieves are just quiet and sneak around and rob you while you sleep. You just wake up in the morning and find you have been robbed. This happened to someone I know and it really freaked them out after the fact.

I am still curious if there might be something that they could do to make you more compliant or less likely to wake up, but short of pumping the room full of gas?

Richard

[wnut]

What gas are these "gentlemen" using, where do they get it, and there must surely be a document trail a mile wide on something that dangerous and poisonous?

Are they using CO? In which case it would seem they are at best just a hair off a murder case!

[Paradise City]

Some ordinary French holiday makers got gassed as well. Clearly there's a crime spree in some of these warmer countries with their ACs.

No need for ACs where I am at the moment. I enjoy a total immunity from the gas burglars that's likely to last for the foreseeable.