IMSA IMSA 2024

[veeten]

Well, it seems that P3 will have a series of their own next year.

https://www.sportscar365.com/imsa/hs...aunch-in-2024/

[broadrun96]

Well a series, it's with HSR at other events. It's for both current and last Gen LMP3s, they've been running in HSR already in debt numbers. They're still running in VP series.

[broadrun96]

IMSA drivers moved up after appeals denied

Huffaker and Pierson remain Gold, Snow as well

Alex Quinn and Marino Sato both moved to Gold so UA is scrambling, Sato was changed without mention of review as well as Snow.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...to-silver.html

[JT240Z]

I've never understood this whole driver classification thing. Someone please explain to me why a driver who does well can be forced out of a professional team because he did his job too well. Seems to me that it adds another BoP thing but to the driver's vs the cars. Another way for politics to enter the racing scene.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by JT240Z

I've never understood this whole driver classification thing. Someone please explain to me why a driver who does well can be forced out of a professional team because he* did his job too well. Seems to me that it adds another BoP thing but to the driver's vs the cars. Another way for politics to enter the racing scene.

That has been levelled at the ACO in the past, when certain drivers always seemed to escape higher ratings. But honestly, now they do a good job of taking a full range of performances/results into account. I think it was more a case of the ACO not putting enough resources/manpower into monitoring driver performances in the early days of driver ratings.

The official answer is that bronze, and to a lesser extent, silver, ratings are a way to ensure that amateur drivers (literally meaning drivers whose main source of income is not racing) have adequate seat time and aren't just used as funding sources for all-pro driver lineups. Hence the regulations that state minimum driver times for different driver ratings in various classes. If you want to consider this a way of applying BoP to drivers, that's valid, but it has a basis in keeping a pathway open for true gentleman drivers to compete.

Silver is where the line is rather blurred. It encompasses the faster, more reliable amateur drivers, but it also houses most young, would-be professional drivers who could successfully argue that they have not raced enough to justify a higher rating. The reasoning is that they get a silver rating until such point that they have demonstrated (through pace, consistency, and/or results) that they should be move up to gold and beyond. But if a well-established team finds a driver who has the talent in regional/national series, they have a clear pace advantage over the "classic" amateur - as the adage goes, you are only as fast as your slowest driver. This is more pronounced in ACO-style series which mandate driver time by driver ratings.

UA are past masters at this, Phil Hanson being a prime example - he was the fastest silver around in 2020, often showing pace on-par with Albuquerque and Di Resta. It's little surprise that they cleaned up in 2020, and that Hanson was promptly moved up to gold for the next season. This could be seen as another example of the ACO acting too late or too cautiously. They are far more pro-active now, as seen by the number of appeals they have had recently, and the rather swift action taken to move a bunch of drivers to gold, Pierson and Sato amongst them. As there will always be "super silvers" waiting to be discovered, I think the ACO are right to be on the front foot with rating reviews, and then drivers/teams can appeal if they wish.

*or she, as Sarah Bovy would no doubt be able to explain at length!

[JT240Z]

Just read this that helps explain is as well.:

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/more...ts-car-racing/

Seems to me, unless you're a factory driver, becoming gold or worse yet a platinum is a career death sentence.

[J Jay]

Any driver who reaches platinum is either already on a manufacturer's books, or is in great demand because they are the fastest for-hire drivers available. Platinum drivers will always be fine, especially with the explosion of top-level seats on offer across the various sportscar series.

Gold, however, is the true dump stat of driver ratings - too good for silver, not good enough for platinum. That's not to say gold is completely without merit, but there isn't much reason to be gold unless you have to be.

[broadrun96]

Yeah, Gold without contacts or family money kills careers. Madison can make it work and is as quick as many of the other Golds but his family has been quick. But a change can be just as hard on a team as the driver as well. Silver to Gold this late when programs have been built can kill off a car in LMP2 or LMGT3, or force a GT up to Pro if you're in IMSA.

[tomcug]

Also I believe that some of the decisions are questionable. Like Andrade going gold. For what? He's an average silver on a good day skill-wise, on a bad day he's one of the weakest silvers. In comparison Gelael stays silver...

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Yeah, Gold without contacts or family money kills careers. Madison can make it work and is as quick as many of the other Golds but his family has been quick. But a change can be just as hard on a team as the driver as well. Silver to Gold this late when programs have been built can kill off a car in LMP2 or LMGT3, or force a GT up to Pro if you're in IMSA.

The timing is the most difficult part as current seasons are a big portion of the yardstick - but at the same time, next year's plans (budgets!) are being developed, pretty much depending on the current rating. It almost feels like a regular business, doesn't it?

[broadrun96]

AWA Vette lineup confirmed; Orey Fidani, Matt Bell, Anthony Mantella and Nico Varrone for full season as they were in LMP3 for 2023.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/a...te-gtd-lineup/

[tomcug]

Four drivers mandatory in pro classes at Daytona, beginning in 2025.
https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/i...s-for-enduros/
Strange change, three pilots are ok for 24-hour races as proven over many years at Dayona and Le Mans.

[broadrun96]

The quali madness is the worse change, GTD and GTD Pro can't change tires in quali so if it's raining you're stuck on dry. It seems like the rule was not clear and at Petit the changing conditions should have allowed a change

And no more class jumping, you get ONE change of class in the year and that's it now, can't go GTD, GTD Pro, GTD

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

The quali madness is the worse change, GTD and GTD Pro can't change tires in quali so if it's raining you're stuck on dry. It seems like the rule was not clear and at Petit the changing conditions should have allowed a change

And no more class jumping, you get ONE change of class in the year and that's it now, can't go GTD, GTD Pro, GTD

I don't understand mandating drivers or which tires to use. That just sounds dangerous on the tire front. If it starts raining, why wouldn't you want the teams to be able to still give it a go on rain tires?

[chernaudi]

I guess IMSA can't stand to have the pro-am teams outqualify the pros or LMP2 to outqualify GTPs due to weather quirks.

[broadrun96]

GTP can change, it sounds like LMP2 can as well. It's just GTD classes so your situation ain't apt at all

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by tomcug

Four drivers mandatory in pro classes at Daytona, beginning in 2025.
https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/i...s-for-enduros/
Strange change, three pilots are ok for 24-hour races as proven over many years at Dayona and Le Mans.

Four mandatory? I know Daytona has often had more, but surely just optional.

And why pro?! I might understand if it was Am.

Originally Posted by broadrun96

The quali madness is the worse change, GTD and GTD Pro can't change tires in quali so if it's raining you're stuck on dry. It seems like the rule was not clear and at Petit the changing conditions should have allowed a change

Can’t change even if the session is declared wet is mad, and very unusual.

And no more class jumping, you get ONE change of class in the year and that's it now, can't go GTD, GTD Pro, GTD

I can see they don’t want this to be normal. Has it got too common? I don’t recall too much of this.

[broadrun96]

Apparently a few did this season back and forth but i'll be damned if I can remember who

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I guess IMSA can't stand to have the pro-am teams outqualify the pros or LMP2 to outqualify GTPs due to weather quirks.

I don’t think this makes a difference to this. Could still happen.

The main classes are lined up in class order no matter what time Keating has done

Sub class of Pro Am for me at least this is fun. I’ve not seen any mumbling that this is a bad thing.

[broadrun96]

This is a bad thing.


Oh wait, I meant it's a bad thing that Keating wasn't on overall pole. In my record books he is on the overall pole and I keep full official records

[Enduranceracer]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Apparently a few did this season back and forth but i'll be damned if I can remember who

The only one I recall is one of the Turner BMW's.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by tomcug

Also I believe that some of the decisions are questionable. Like Andrade going gold. For what? He's an average silver on a good day skill-wise, on a bad day he's one of the weakest silvers. In comparison Gelael stays silver...

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but this change is the one that surprised me the most.
Like you say, he's a decent silver, but not really shown that he's got pro speed, not with any consistency anyway.
He's had his best year in racing, and it'll probably kill his career, or at least stall it until he eventually drops back down to silver.
I hope he gets to stick around though.

[Geer van der Helm]

Originally Posted by J Jay

That has been levelled at the ACO in the past, when certain drivers always seemed to escape higher ratings. But honestly, now they do a good job of taking a full range of performances/results into account. I think it was more a case of the ACO not putting enough resources/manpower into monitoring driver performances in the early days of driver ratings.

The official answer is that bronze, and to a lesser extent, silver, ratings are a way to ensure that amateur drivers (literally meaning drivers whose main source of income is not racing) have adequate seat time and aren't just used as funding sources for all-pro driver lineups. Hence the regulations that state minimum driver times for different driver ratings in various classes. If you want to consider this a way of applying BoP to drivers, that's valid, but it has a basis in keeping a pathway open for true gentleman drivers to compete.

Silver is where the line is rather blurred. It encompasses the faster, more reliable amateur drivers, but it also houses most young, would-be professional drivers who could successfully argue that they have not raced enough to justify a higher rating. The reasoning is that they get a silver rating until such point that they have demonstrated (through pace, consistency, and/or results) that they should be move up to gold and beyond. But if a well-established team finds a driver who has the talent in regional/national series, they have a clear pace advantage over the "classic" amateur - as the adage goes, you are only as fast as your slowest driver. This is more pronounced in ACO-style series which mandate driver time by driver ratings.

UA are past masters at this, Phil Hanson being a prime example - he was the fastest silver around in 2020, often showing pace on-par with Albuquerque and Di Resta. It's little surprise that they cleaned up in 2020, and that Hanson was promptly moved up to gold for the next season. This could be seen as another example of the ACO acting too late or too cautiously. They are far more pro-active now, as seen by the number of appeals they have had recently, and the rather swift action taken to move a bunch of drivers to gold, Pierson and Sato amongst them. As there will always be "super silvers" waiting to be discovered, I think the ACO are right to be on the front foot with rating reviews, and then drivers/teams can appeal if they wish.

*or she, as Sarah Bovy would no doubt be able to explain at length!

The whole categorization thing is not blurred. The only thing what is blurry that some teams can manipulate the FIA commitee to keep some drivers silver (or bronze). And that still makes is a joke. The basic rule is that if you have 3 years of experience in CIK-FIA Karting OR 2 years in a significant single seater series F2, F3, Superformula) you will be automatically promoted to gold. There is no grey area in the rules. Besides that organizers (for Example ACO, IMSA) can suggest drivers for promotion. And that is where the politics start and Mr. Richard Mille is mainly judge and jury.

So, based on the primary regulations about experience, Sato, Gelael and Correa should have been gold for years now. All of them did.minimally 5 years of (GP3, GP2, F3 or F2). The fact that they remained silver last.year was just due to the fact that WRT, UA and Prema needed a reasonable fast money pigs for their line-ups. And as I understood Correa was reviewed and again a silver. Unbelievable, because he also has the pace of a gold. Gelael is not fast enough for a gold, but the rules are clear. But it's not fair to.other drivers like Quinn and last year for my son. We appealed, but the appeal is just extra dinner money for the folks in Genève. They don"t even look at it, no explanation whatsoever. Luckily it paid out good for us with the opportunity we got at JDC in the 963.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

This is a bad thing.


Oh wait, I meant it's a bad thing that Keating wasn't on overall pole. In my record books he is on the overall pole and I keep full official records

Thank you for your service

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Thank you for your service

It's mostly scratched in the clay so a bit temporary and usually drunkenly written, this year not so much though.

So no F1 driver for Daytona.

Hartley and Herta in for WTR enduros, Hartley in the 10 with Ricky and Filipe and Herta in the 40 with Jordan and Louis. No word on the Daytona 4th/5th guys but Albon reported out

https://racer.com/2023/11/07/hartley...durance-races/
https://racer.com/2023/11/07/wtrandr...-fall-through/