[WEC] Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

exactly lol. they'res no reason to slow the cars.....Is the ACO trying to get me to watch Formula one?

No, but the FIA would to Tilkeize Le Mans.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by AGD

No, but the FIA would to Tilkeize Le Mans.

You could argue in a lot of places (both circuit itself and run off) its already been done. And I doubt the ACO would spend much money to upgrade the facilities since they did that fairly recentely.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

You could argue in a lot of places (both circuit itself and run off) its already been done. And I doubt the ACO would spend much money to upgrade the facilities since they did that fairly recentely.

There was some rumors that the circuit could lose it's certification if average race laps fell below 3:30 (or something like that, I forget the actual formula that is used) unless more chicanes were added or something like that. I don't know if the ACO is out of the woods for a number of years now or if this will become a recurring issue. But, yes, I think it is fair to say that we should not expect the 3:30 target to go anywhere anytime soon. Maybe someone else can explain the details of certification more clearly.

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by AGD

There was some rumors that the circuit could lose it's certification if average race laps fell below 3:30 (or something like that, I forget the actual formula that is used) unless more chicanes were added or something like that. I don't know if the ACO is out of the woods for a number of years now or if this will become a recurring issue. But, yes, I think it is fair to say that we should not expect the 3:30 target to go anywhere anytime soon. Maybe someone else can explain the details of certification more clearly.

What quack within the ACO is supporting this?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

What quack within the ACO is supporting this?

None, it's an FIA thing. And it has nothing to do with the WEC (unless, of course, some deal was made to bring the FIA back to Le Mans in exchange for the FIA ignoring the lap times issue. That's probably unlikely.).

This issue was discussed on RLM a couple of months back. Hindy and (I believe) Graham Goodwin were talking about the details. Maybe someone else who remembers the discussion a little better can fill us in.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

What quack within the ACO is supporting this?

Remember, if what people are saying is true about the certification issue then the ACO will be forced to do something, since the ACO itself is Circuit De La Sarthe. I personally wouldnt mind another twisty section like the Dunlop or the Porsche Curves, but another chicane...

As long as they dont butcher it like Hockenheim, and no defenders of the improvement I couldnt give a damn about the 100,000 or so whinging spectators complaining about not being able to see most of the circuit, it ended up ruining the product for millions of TV viewers.

[Pandamasque]

I'd rather they change the cars. Cut some DF and keep top speeds as they are. If they make cars less F1-like looks wise in the process that would be good.

[MitchZ06]

LMPevo's would create more drag, thus be slower in a straight line and drop that lap time considerably.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

No thank you to LMPEvo or anything else that resembles a road car look on the top class, Ive stayed away from that thread for a reason. But I do agree about making them look less F1 like, I think the Coupes have already slightly taken care of that though.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TF110

775kg with the hybrid power and they expect the cars to be slower? Who're they kidding? You lose over 10% of your weight, to be slower you'd have to lose some good hp as well. What're they going to cut aero as well? I don't see the reason to 'slow' the cars down. P2 cars weren't far off 3:30 last year. I guess we'll see soon.

As weight is reduced, power would be, same speeds, greater efficiency. As Pescarolo said, if the ACO wants more efficient cars, why are current machines running with 100+kg ballast.

By moving to an energy formula you can free up power sources, in theory petrol, diesel, hybrid, all electric etc., will have the same chance of victory. As in Group C, qualifying can be a shoot-out, race pace will be dictated by how efficient your car is.

As for pace, the quickest petrol cars ran approx. 3.35's, with quite some development room to improve.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

No thank you to LMPEvo or anything else that resembles a road car look on the top class, Ive stayed away from that thread for a reason. But I do agree about making them look less F1 like, I think the Coupes have already slightly taken care of that though.

I didn't mean the homologated cars, but something with wider greenhouse, and integral-looking front end. More like the Early Bentley Speed 8, Toyota GT-One.

[JAG]

If you look at the R18 and Rebellion Lola, the trend may be moving back to flatter noses.

[TF110]

Fuel efficiency wouldn't automatically mean slower times. Like I said, with LESS WEIGHT AND HYBRID- they expect the cars to be slower? Yeah, right. Just like F1... slow the cars, cut refueling, decrease engine sizes... still faster.

[92scotland]

They can do all they want to try and attempt to cut the speeds of the cars but in the end, the designers always find a way of making the cars quicker.

A great example is in F1. Double diffusers banned and what do you know, the designers found a way of getting the majority of the lost downforce back.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I didn't mean the homologated cars, but something with wider greenhouse, and integral-looking front end. More like the Early Bentley Speed 8, Toyota GT-One.

Yes agree with you there, Speed 8 was how an LMP sports car should look in my opinion, good news with teams and manufacturers starting to go down the coupe/closed top route now I think the ACO has a chance to do this in the future.

[Audi Racer]

I always thought the speed 8 was a bit of an Ugly ducking.....

Now the Toyota Gt-one and the Pescarolo's..... those are some beautiful body shappes.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TF110

Fuel efficiency wouldn't automatically mean slower times. Like I said, with LESS WEIGHT AND HYBRID- they expect the cars to be slower? Yeah, right. Just like F1... slow the cars, cut refueling, decrease engine sizes... still faster.

Development never ceases, engine size, aero, tyres etc. are cut, but speeds remain in the same ballpark.

With cars weighing 775kg, ultilising hybrid systems, the IC engine may only produce 450bhp, maintaining current speeds with greater efficiency.

Additionally, it's proposed energy will be reduced each year, an additional opportunity to reduce race pace, without tinkering with the cars.

[TF110]

Leave them be I say. Performance cutting capping, w/e, just seems weird, Have at I say, show us how fast and safe you can be. Limits will always be in place, but making the cars slower just feels like a waste. Porsche better have a word as well as Audi/Peugeot about keeping P1 cars P1's that're as fast as they are now, not slow them so much that GT cars are just as fast on straights.

[dxk1]

I can't believe all of you going on and on about Porsche in LMP1 in 2014! This is all meaningless drivel. First we have to make sure the world survives past December 21, 2012, then we can worry about what Porsche will do in 2014!!



DK

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by dxk1

I can't believe all of you going on and on about Porsche in LMP1 in 2014! This is all meaningless drivel. First we have to make sure the world survives past December 21, 2012, then we can worry about what Porsche will do in 2014!!



DK

Dont worry, 2012 is nothing compared to Y2K, June 6th 2006, the Zombie apocalypse and May 21st, all of which I somehow managed to survive.

Hmmmmmm, my 666th post.........

[JAG]

Autosport say Audi and Porsche will go head to head, with different technologies.

VW gave Audi an ultimatum to match the pace of Peugeot's new car, securing their long-term sportscar future. As hinted at, Audi is likely run a major revision of the R18 in 2012.

[Dario911]

It was only a question of time, before Porsche would have come to Le Mans with a P1.
They will use a V8 petrol engine, with hybrid technology. It's clear after all their experiments with 911 GT3-R Hybrid and 918 RSR.
I'm sure Porsche will play as the star of Le Mans, since its debut in 2014. They've got money, technology and drivers to make the difference. I'm sure they'll be competitive since the first time, just like they were with RS Spyder.
I think they will adopt a closed P1 configuration. But nothing has been declared about.
The most important thing, is that the King of Le Mans is coming back!

[porman]

Hopefully we will witness a field like which we haven't seen in some time. The hard part is going to be waiting for the epic battle.

It's the ultimate tease.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by porman

Hopefully we will witness a field like which we haven't seen in some time. The hard part is going to be waiting for the epic battle.

It's the ultimate tease.

We're certainly in for a bit of a wait but it will be wort it.

[chernaudi]

Potential fuel for the Porsche LMP1 Hybrid rumors?

Autosport print had an interview with Audi Sport boss Wolfgang Ullrich regarding the future of the Audi R18 program. It seems because of the R18's success at LM, Audi have been given the go-ahead to develop a hybrid version of the R18 for Le Mans and the WEC next year. It will be a substancial evolution of the current car, and will resemble it closely, and will use the basic mechanical and structural elements (a question mark there, as I don't have an copy of Autosport at hand, though the R18 was designed for the use of a hybrid system from the start). However, it'll have many detail changes to allow for optimization and full implementation of the hybrid system.

Why is this import for Porsche? The current 911 GT3 Hybrid's Williams/Porsche flywheel system is less than ideal for an LMP1 car, especially one that's supposed to weight 775kgs per the proposed 2014 rules. The Flywheel is bulky, weighs a ton (at least 200lbs/100kilos, if not more), and in the 911, there's plenty of space, and the weight penalty isn't extreme, in part because of its F1 like push to pass feature, which is illegal under current ACO regs.

Audi are rumored to maybe be pursing WERS, or waste energy recovery systems, to power the R18 hybrid (which is what I'll refer to it now, since it's rumored that Audi may change the car's designation to keep it from being confused with the normal R18). WERS has the potential to be lighter and easier to package then KERS, or the flywheel, and it stands to reason that if Audi can get a WERS system to work, it makes perfect sense to Porsche to use a similar system.

Even if Audi pulls out of the LMP1 class after 2013, their legacy may be left behind in the electric hybrid bits on the Porsche LMP1