[WEC Race] 2013 FIA WEC - Round 6 - 6 Hours of Fuji

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

Is Autopolis certified by the FIA to be able to host LMP1 cars? They could try that circuit for a year, if the weather might be nicer.

Autopolis is a FIA Grade 2 circuit, same as Le Mans, Sebring, and most major road courses in the U.S. (except COTA, which is Grade 1 = certified for F1). So yes, Autopolis should be OK for LMP1.

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

Is Autopolis certified by the FIA to be able to host LMP1 cars? They could try that circuit for a year, if the weather might be nicer.

http://www.fpak.pt/homologacoes/2012...FIA%202012.pdf

It's FIA Grade 2, so I believe so (given Le Mans is Grade 2 also). The problem with Autopolis is it's in quite the most remote location possible in Japan. Suzuka and/or Twin Ring Motegi would probably be the best bets in Japan... Sugo and Okayama are pretty nice but a bit too small.

Perhaps Suzuka is an idea for the near future.

Apparently, November-January are the driest months for Shanghai so let's hope for a sunny race on November 1!

[CTD]

Hmm, I think we need to get Ayse onto his Le Mans-Ban-word magic

[chernaudi]

I notice that DSC in their report might have had a typo--they say that the #2 Audi leads the #1 by 40.75 points. They say that it's 9 points vs 1.5 points (1 for pole, one for finishing position). What doesn't make sense is that they claim that the #1 finished sub top 10 (overall, but not in class). In class, they finished 5th, so shouldn't they be given either 6 or 5.5 points? In that case, the points lead would be more like 36-37 points?

Am I missing something, or did DSC make a typo in their report based on unofficial results?

EDIT: LMP and GT driver's championships still scored as a single class without LMP1/2 and GTE-pro/am subclass designations.

Still, the #1 will need a miracle to win the driver's title, and guys in the #8 are probably done now, too, since they finished behind the #1 Audi in LMP1 and overall.

Also, DSC does report that all drivers, because of what happened, will score equal points based on finishing result in class whether or not they drove in the event. Wise move, and the best thing that they could do there not to screw up the championship because of something force majure.

[CTD]

I'll go by the official:
http://www.fiawec.com/courses/classification.html
But nice to see that they gave equal points to all drivers.

[chernaudi]

The FIA needs to make the best out of this, and, hopefully, steps can be taken to help prevent this from happening again.

[hcl123]

C'mon guys it was really pouring... its a sensible decision, at least better this than the lamentations about tragic accidents, and in LM was not pouring at the time...

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by CTD

Hmm, I think we need to get Ayse onto his Le Mans-Ban-word magic

I've told you before, you guys just don't believe in the power of positive thought.....

[chernaudi]

True, but if the FIA are interested in putting on a race, every reasonable effort must be made to allow for that.

The situation at Fuji was untenable. It would've been better to plan to hold the race Monday, but since everything had to be packed up by at the latest Monday night, that would've difficult at best, if not impossible.

The FIA did what they could given their circumstances. But a better plan, or simply revised track draining, would've been a big help. The difficulty with Fuji, though, is that it's sitting right next to a mountain. Can there be an effective drainage system for such heavy rain for that facility?

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Beetle

http://www.fpak.pt/homologacoes/2012...FIA%202012.pdf

It's FIA Grade 2, so I believe so (given Le Mans is Grade 2 also). The problem with Autopolis is it's in quite the most remote location possible in Japan. Suzuka and/or Twin Ring Motegi would probably be the best bets in Japan... Sugo and Okayama are pretty nice but a bit too small.

Perhaps Suzuka is an idea for the near future.

I doubt they're going to leave Fuji as long as Toyota is involved and move to Suzuka as long as Honda isn't involved.

[kober]

What about moving the Fuji race in the calendar? What about racing there in September, then China, then some random ME round, and then a finale on the COTA? I don't think that shipping all the stuff from Brazil to Japan rather than to Texas is that much more money- and time-consuming.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by kober

What about moving the Fuji race in the calendar? What about racing there in September, then China, then some random ME round, and then a finale on the COTA? I don't think that shipping all the stuff from Brazil to Japan rather than to Texas is that much more money- and time-consuming.

That would also mean USCC moving their race at COTA, considering that both IMSA and the ACO are inclined to keep the COTA meeting as a USCC/WEC double-header.

[chernaudi]

Fuji was a freak occurrence for sure, but it's still important that the FIA learn from it.

I know that the 2014 schedule is still provisional (and is still being tweaked even as of last week), but we have to consider that Fuji and China have to scheduled fairly close to each other. If any shuffling happens, that has to be kept in mind.

Best thing to do is to try to repair the track drainage at Fuji, but with the geography, can they without it being prohibitively expensive or being flat out impractical?

[Simmi]

How many other races have actually been called off at Fuji that we know about apart from this morning?

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Simmi

How many other races have actually been called off at Fuji that we know about apart from this morning?

I know that a Super GT race in 2011 was stopped early, and in 2010 one was cancelled beforehand due to a Typhoon.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Simmi

How many other races have actually been called off at Fuji that we know about apart from this morning?

Back in the 80s there was one Group C race that was called after a few laps because of too much rain.

No idea about the exact year but I remember reading about it. I think there was an issue with not enough rain tires being on hand as well.

[chernaudi]

The major international events that have been rain shorted were the '85 WEC event that Acid referred to, and the '07 F1 race was nearly stopped short, and was delayed by a couple of hours and spent much time behind the safety car because of heavy rain.

'85 was very similar to what happened last night--heavy rain, severe issues with standing water, and a lack of track drainage. Only different is that the FIA was more prudent with doing what they did last night vs 85 where they ran almost half the race, most of the field called it quits on the pace lap, and others found it was virtually impossible to drive, let alone race, with the track as it was.

Fuji obviously has issues with track drainage, being virtually built into a mountain side and there's several places on track property--on circuit and off--where water will pond if given enough opportunity.

An improved drainage system seems to be a must to prevent this from happening again. But can such a thing even be put in place due to financial and/or technological challenges?

[isynge]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The major international events that have been rain shorted were the '85 WEC event that Acid referred to, and the '07 F1 race was nearly stopped short, and was delayed by a couple of hours and spent much time behind the safety car because of heavy rain.

'85 was very similar to what happened last night--heavy rain, severe issues with standing water, and a lack of track drainage. Only different is that the FIA was more prudent with doing what they did last night vs 85 where they ran almost half the race, most of the field called it quits on the pace lap, and others found it was virtually impossible to drive, let alone race, with the track as it was.

Fuji obviously has issues with track drainage, being virtually built into a mountain side and there's several places on track property--on circuit and off--where water will pond if given enough opportunity.

An improved drainage system seems to be a must to prevent this from happening again. But can such a thing even be put in place due to financial and/or technological challenges?

While I was as frustrated as everyone else by last night, having been up at 0300 for it (okay, so that was a happy accident from a fun dinner party but hey, why look a gift horse in the mouth), I'm not sure we need to go to the effort of putting improved drainage in place.

Okay, autumn in NE Asia can have foul weather, but looking at the instances of it having serious issues is an issue occurring once every 10 years, and it's not going to always be like yesterday in providing conditions that mean we can have no racing at all? Bearing this in mind do we need to go out there and demand the big spent to try and put enhanced drainage in place (if that's even possible).

Two final thoughts...

A negative - Fuji's got vast tarmac runoffs rather than grass - does that add to the drainage issues and is that something that should be thought about in terms of what actually adds to safety?

A positive - the '85 round and the majority of the European entrants parking up led to the Japanese entrants getting a level of star billing, which led to increased commitment from them in the following years. Okay Toyota's "win" this year was about as hollow as they come, but if it helps build some enthusiasm in that corner I don't see too many complaints coming forward.

[Beetle]

For all practical purposes, even Buddh International Circuit would offer more meteorological security than Fuji Speedway does, at least in late October. Yes, the air pollution is horrendous, but would you rather have a wet cancelled race or a smoggy, dry race... I believe I'd choose the latter. And if you follow me on the F1 side of 10 Tenths, most likely you know my dislike towards the Indian GP.

After looking at the climate data for the Shizuoka Prefecture (specifically for Shizuoka, the capital of the prefecture of the same name), I can honestly say that there really wasn't a better time to put the race. Unfortunately, the entire prefecture gets a lot of rain all year round basically, except December and January. Same with Suzuka and Motegi - all get around 5-6 inches of rain in October, 3-4 in November, and during the rainy season, up to 10 inches per month.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Beetle

For all practical purposes, even Buddh International Circuit would offer more meteorological security than Fuji Speedway does, at least in late October. Yes, the air pollution is horrendous, but would you rather have a wet cancelled race or a smoggy, dry race... I believe I'd choose the latter. And if you follow me on the F1 side of 10 Tenths, most likely you know my dislike towards the Indian GP.

After looking at the climate data for the Shizuoka Prefecture (specifically for Shizuoka, the capital of the prefecture of the same name), I can honestly say that there really wasn't a better time to put the race. Unfortunately, the entire prefecture gets a lot of rain all year round basically, except December and January. Same with Suzuka and Motegi - all get around 5-6 inches of rain in October, 3-4 in November, and during the rainy season, up to 10 inches per month.

There's rain and there's a typhoon.

Autumn is the typhoon season in North East Asia and when one comes through you know about it... I distinctly remember orbiting over mid-China in a BA 747 for a very long time in 2008 (to the extent that the cabin crew had to start reassuring people about the amount of fuel aboard) before heading into Hong Kong, and sitting in the airport for a similarly lengthy time before my flight up to Seoul materialised, all down to the sort of weather we saw in Fuji last night. It was a serious level of weather and I'd have had reservations driving my streetcar in it, let alone going racing. That said, once the typhoon passes it's lovely - typical high northern hemisphere autumnal weather.

The '85 race that all the European teams pulled out of attracted over 80,000 spectators, and last year people gushed about the atmosphere at Fuji. Combine that with the longstanding Japanese affinity for Le Mans and long distance sportscars and do we really think that Buddh is going to be a better bet?

[chernaudi]

And putting the race at Motegi or Suzuka isn't much better for those reasons. It's every bit as rainy at Suzuka as Fuji this time of year, and getting a dry or wet weekend is hit or miss in Oct or Nov.

And in Nov, Motegi is worse, because there's potential for snow that time of year because of it's proximity to a mountain range, temperature, and altitude.

NASCAR stopped holding races in Japan after 1999 because of logistics and, above all else, bad weather.

One option could be to get China and Japan to switch dates, but what other issues can that cause? China is often dry in Nov, while the weather for mainland Japan doesn't improve much.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And putting the race at Motegi or Suzuka isn't much better for those reasons. It's every bit as rainy at Suzuka as Fuji this time of year, and getting a dry or wet weekend is hit or miss in Oct or Nov.

And in Nov, Motegi is worse, because there's potential for snow that time of year because of it's proximity to a mountain range, temperature, and altitude.

NASCAR stopped holding races in Japan after 1999 because of logistics and, above all else, bad weather.

One option could be to get China and Japan to switch dates, but what other issues can that cause? China is often dry in Nov, while the weather for mainland Japan doesn't improve much.

The core point here is that racing in Japan raises the risk of it raining.

Instead of wringing hands about it let's live with it. Okay 10% of the time we'll have to have something like we just saw but shifting the date really won't change much, especially when you start to factor in issues like we can't move Le Mans away from June (rioting French students excepted) and there probably should be a sensible-ish gap after it.

Switching Japan and China won't I suspect help all that much. The typhoons than can come through Japan can just as easily come through Shanghai, and Japan's going to start getting very cold come November.

My call? We got a serious dose of bad luck this year, chances are we won't next year. That will probably fix things.

[GT3Spec]

It's a shame. Was at the circuit and really looking forward to it.
Oh well.
Maybe I will be able to get to Shanghai for the next round.

Weather today in Tokyo is much better.

[chernaudi]

Only thing that can be done is hope that Fuji gets their drainage issues fixed by next season in case this happens again (it happened in '85, and several national events had to be canceled, shortened or postponed because of heavy rain and track flooding in recent years as well).

Or hope that the ACO/FIA have some back up plan, such as flexibility with shipping or getting their own shipping frieighters or air craft to own or rent (unlikely to happen), and the former option would depend on their partner being willing to bend over backward to accommodate them, especially when they have more profitable customers this time of year. Again, not likely to happen.

First the guardrail issues at LM that caused an ungodly amount of yellow flag periods and likely contributed to a driver fatality, and now Fuji being a disaster.

I hope that the "law of threes" (aka, bad things come in threes) doesn't happen and cause some other freak incident to happen in China or Bahrain. The FIA and ACO have had enough issues of strange things happening in the WEC this season.

[TF110]

It was just a matter of chance. Theres nothing wrong with Fuji. Drainage is an issue at lots of tracks. If there was an alternative, it would be to move to an earlier date. Just the week before at Suzuka, it felt like Summer.