Brabham BT30 - Page 11

HENDERZSON · 1 Aug 2006, 19:19 (Ref:1670237)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

The "ex-Rollinson" Choat/Hardesty car is advertised as "Brabham BT30, ex-Feltham Glassworks car" with a twincam from a London number (01 949 1977/2350) in Autosport 17 Jul 1975 p88. One page earlier, someone in East Horsley (Bobbie Bell or Alex Seldon presumably) is advertising the ex-Hardesty BT36 and a BT30/36. That strongly suggests that the Feltham BT30 is not the BT30/36 that Bell or Seldon advertises.

I still don't understand this Feltham BT30 and how it can be ex-Rollinson.

Allen

The East Horsley Autosport advert (July 1975) for BT36 ex Hardesty and BT30/36 was by Nick Overall . I confimed recently by phone, and the BT36 ex Hardetsy was chassis #10, that I own in the US. Nick Overall was not very sure about the BT30/36 previous owner. I did ask if it was the ex Feltham Glassworks car but could not recall.
Ian

mike scott · 6 Sep 2006, 15:19 (Ref:1703393)

My brabham has chassis no am 70 100 on rear cross member, with letters NRJ. tommy Reid drove it in europe. I am told by ted Walker that this car won the Bogota Grand Prix in 71 with Rollinson driving.I wonder if he also drove the car in Europe? Chris Sherrat had the car in Barbados from 73 to 86,does anyone Know its Carabean history

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

This is a major post for me in regard to these cars ,and a lot of assistance is due to Chris Townsend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

I will have made some mistakes , but initially will post obscure cars in order to see if we can eliminate strange entities out in to correct spec.
The major problem with these cars is it took very little for the same car to be reported as anything between a BT28 and or BT36 or anything inbetween.
For the people that may not be aware , the FIA rules in regard to cockpit widths altered and BT28-29 and 30 were not considered wide enought for save emergency exit , therefor the BT35 and BT36 had altered body panels to comply.
Naturally cars were altered to comply and a ''say '' BT30 then was reported as a BT36 in some instances.This has greatly complicated tracking of the cars.

The first cars are to seek assistance and to advise.

BT30x as a hillclimb car in 1969 at least by 23-5-69 , for Mike McDowell and shared with Rob Jennings , fitted with a Climax FWMV 2.0 V8 , always entered as seperate entity , but the same car.
This car is BT30x-1 , and is a combination of McDowells engine and Jennings chassis, car is used in this form all through 1970 and A/S reports 18-2-1971 p.25 as now being fitted with a 3.5 Litre Buick , work being carried out by Roy Lane.
Car then adv. sale 10-6-71 p.75,
Sold to David Fyfe and confirmed as BT30X-1 .
For sale again A/S 7-12-72. No further known.

Roger Hickman is out in the hills early 1969 in a 1.6 FVA engined BT30 at Loton Park.
This car changes hands to Brian Pickering and is at Barbon Manor in 1970 as a BT30 fitted with a 1.5 Lotus Twin-cam.
In 1971 this car is now shared with Nigel Woodise A/S 18-2-1971 p.25 still fitted with 1.5 Twin-cam [for class wins].
No number known by me, Chris suggests could be BT30-2 ?????

The next is what started as a BT29 FB with a Cosworth FVC , and entered by Tony Griffiths , this entity is reported as written off at Silverstone and is then replaced by a BT30 , which A/S reports as built April 1970.
Did the chassis plate get transferred and only a new chassis , BT30 , or a whole new car or what.???????????

The next is an adv. 10-2-1972 p.54 for a BT28/30 for sale as an F3 with genuine Bt30 chassis.

BT30-1 1969 Kurt Ahrens as F2 .
1970 Werner Lindeman as F2 at C/Palace 24-5-1970

Car written off , destroyed by fire in the report for Hockenheim F2 round 14-6-1970

BT30-2, reported as Peter Westbury's car at Zolder 13-6-1969 p.8 . somehow I think this is a reporting error.

BT30-3, First /Westbury at Zolder 13-6-1969 p.8 .
Major damage , to be rebuilt for the next round of the F2 series.
At Le Castellet 26-7-1970 , now with John Wingfield .
In 1971 still with Wingfield at Hockenheim 8-4-1971 p.10
For sale A/S 1-7-1971 p.60
To Jim Charnock prior August 1971 used at Oulton Park 7-10-1971.
The following is not verified .
To Christopher Mann U.K. 1983
To Ray Delaney , Australia [ verified ] 1983-88.
To Art Valdez U.S.A. 1990-1 circa.
Nothing Further.

BT30-4 , for Malcolm Guthrie , new at Zolder 13-6-1969 p.8
Frank Williams as entrant some or all of the time in1969.
By 1970 for Ecurie Ecosse for Graham Birrell at N'bring 3-5- 1970.
Thence to Jolly Club /Gagliardi, non C/ship rd. at Monza , 21-7-1970, then Salzburg F2 30-8-1970.
Then Scuderia Ala d'oro for Gian-Luigi Picchi at Hockenheim 4-4-1971.
then reported to be shared by Salvati and Picchi in 1971 , and stated to be the car used by Silvio Moser at Bogota in 1971.
Carlo Franchi for 'Gimax' at Monza 20-6-1971.
Nothing further.

BT30-5.
Frank Williams , new for Piers Courage Zolder 13-6-1969 p.8
To Albert Poon and used at Macau 16-11-1969 , report 27-11-1969 p.14 , retained into 1970 and used at Macau again A/S 3-12-1970 p.4 .
Nothing further.

Bt30-6 . Irish Racing Cars / Alan Rollison 1969,
to Bogota Sth.America F2 series , reported as very little used , in fact an uprated 1969 car.
Poss. for sale Bob Howlings Racing Cars 17-2-1972 p.42 as EX. Rollinson , winner at Bogota , also rear cover Autosport 2-3-1972 .
To Nelson Todd Ireland 1971 .
To Ken Walker/ Peter Kaye U.K. 1972 [ David McKinney]
To Bob Howlings again.????
To John Bradburn.
To James Wallis 1982-3 usedin the H.S.C.C championship.
To Bob Howlings 1985
To Tony Thompson 1986.
To Chris Farrell [Australia] retained 2003.

That's all for now .

Any fixes needed.

Bryan.

allenbrown · 6 Sep 2006, 15:43 (Ref:1703412)

Hi Mike and welcome.

I think it would be fair to say that the three Irish Racing Cars BT30s, chassis 6, 8 and 12, are proving difficult to sort out. Race reports on Bogota strongly suggest Rollinson was using BT30/6 but it's hard to be sure.

Allen

Andrew Fellowes · 6 Sep 2006, 21:07 (Ref:1703756)

Chris Farrell owns #6 just 20 kms away from me and I know he believes he has a strong claim to Bogota. As to BT30-12's Carabean history, I have no idea.
Mike thanks for posting the am number, and welcome, nice to see you here.

Chris Townsend · 8 Sep 2006, 17:45 (Ref:1705371)

Going back over my 1971 F2 records for another reason connected to an imminent ORC posting of some significance, I chanced upon a gooner on my part.
The Moser car at Bogota is BT30-7, clearly identified as such and with the added guarantee of ex Guthrie ex Gagliardi.
This car then goes to the Brambilla Gorillas as a spare car [and did they need it] used by Picchi at Hockenheim [chassis number given as 4 by A/S but said to be Moser's Bogota car and ex Gagliardi], used by Vittorio at Thruxton in preference to 22, [where A/S gives the chassis number as 6 just to be consistent] but again it's ex Picchi/Moser etc. Wheeled out for team at Nurburgring after Vittorio did for chassis 21 at Pau.

More to come when I get to second half of the season later next week.

Chris

Andrew Fellowes · 8 Sep 2006, 21:03 (Ref:1705539)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

More to come when I get to second half of the season later next week.

Chris

Fantastic stuff, When I've asked the question 'How did Autosport get the chassis number' the answer has always been 'cause it was eyeballed. Looks like while they may have been literate they were not numerate. Looking forward to pt.2, Andrew

allenbrown · 10 Sep 2006, 10:31 (Ref:1706512)

Still leafing through my new 1979 MN's, I spotted brief mention of a backmarker in a libre at Lydden (MN 21 Jun 1979 p9), "the improving Buick-engined Brabham BT30 of Barrie Dutnall".

Do we know which one this could be?

Ted, could this be BT30X/1, the one you later owned?

Steve Wilkinson · 10 Sep 2006, 14:13 (Ref:1706831)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Still leafing through my new 1979 MN's, I spotted brief mention of a backmarker in a libre at Lydden (MN 21 Jun 1979 p9), "the improving Buick-engined Brabham BT30 of Barrie Dutnall".

Do we know which one this could be?

Ted, could this be BT30X/1, the one you later owned?

Barrie was often seen in hillclimbs as well so it could well be a BT30X.

allenbrown · 10 Sep 2006, 21:32 (Ref:1707399)

I've got so confused by BT30-6 and BT30-8, I've tried to dredge up all we have on this thread about them:

BT30-6 Irish Racing Cars
1969
April 7th Thruxton Alan Rollinson
June 29th Reims Alan Rollinson
August 24th Enna Alan Rollinson
September 14th Albi Alan Rollinson
October 12th Vallelunga Alan Rollinson
1970
1971
February 14th Bogota Alan Rollinson
February 21st Bogota Alan Rollinson
1971 Nelson Todd
1972 17th Feb, Bob Howlings for sale ex Rollinson
1972 Ken Walker/Peter Kaye
1973 A/S Jan 25th p.48 Rollinson/Bogota, Adrian Bethall, Sheffield 686171
? late 1973 Choat/Hardesty "ex-Rollinson"
? ex-Feltham Glassworks advertised from London
19?? Next recorded Jon Bradburn
1982-5 Jim Wallis raced in Historics
1985 Bob Howlings
1986 Tony Thompson
to Chris Farrell, Australia.
2005 restoration nearing completion.

BT30-8 Irish Racing Cars
1969
April 7th Thruxton Tommy Reid dna
October 12th Vallelunga Tommy Reid 20th
1970
May 25th Crystal Palace Alan Rollinson 10th
September 13th Phoenix Park Tommy Reid dna
November 22nd Israel Tommy Reid 6
1971 11th July, Mondello Park, John Smith
1971 Bob Howlings, for sale 18-11-1971 p. 59
1972 possibly John Smith
? 1972-1975 maybe Vincent family
? Spencer Elton and a tree at Wiscombe
? Bob Wilson
Jon Bradburn
mid-1980s Simon Hadfield (bought from Bradburn "ex-hillclimber")
1986 Andrew Fellowes, restored & raced in HSCC with FVA
1990 George Nuse. Aluminium tanks retained but now with BT36 bag tanks
1992 Jordan Harris
2005 for sale

The Irish part of the history still doesn't inspire confidence.

Ted, was Spencer able to confirm the history of BT30-8 either side of his ownership? I never thought to ask him at Beaulieu.

Allen

Andrew Fellowes · 10 Sep 2006, 22:10 (Ref:1707437)

(small addition)
Chris Farrell told me his brother bought the car on his behalf from Straight Six.

Chris Townsend · 11 Sep 2006, 07:48 (Ref:1707624)

Rollinson confirmed in chassis no 6 at Bogota 1971 by MN.
Reid given in chassis 12 at Mallory and Thruxton 71 by A/S.
Comment in MN at Thruxton is that he was due to fly up to Ingliston from Thruxton on the Saturday of the meeting to drive Irish Racing cars FVC engined car in the libre race. Was this 6 or 8?

Chris

allenbrown · 11 Sep 2006, 08:04 (Ref:1707635)

Reid advertised his car as BT30-8 with a mass of titles and trophies to its name implying BT30-8 was the FVC car. He continues to race a BT30 in the early part of 1972 (waiting for his BT38 to be delivered) but this has a FVA engine except at the Mondello F5000 race (30 Apr 1972) where it has a FVC. If BT30-8 had indeed gone to Howlings in November 1971 and then (maybe) to the Vincent family, that suggests Reid has kept BT30-12 for 1972. His last race in a BT30 is Mondello in June at which point it passes to Nelson Todd who runs it until March 1973.

Meanwhile, John Smith ran a BT30-FVA in Irish libre right through 1971 but this could, I suppose, have been a deal to run Reid/IRC's spare car. Or the ex-Rollinson BT30-6 maybe? John Pollock raced a BT30 in Irish libre in 1973 which could be ex-Todd or could be the ex-Kevin Murphy BT30-20.

Still messy, isn't it?

Allen

Chris Townsend · 11 Sep 2006, 13:44 (Ref:1707982)

I have a note on my records from somewhere that John Smith in late 71 acquires the 'ex Rollinson Bogota winner'. Will check MN tomorrow!

Chris

allenbrown · 11 Sep 2006, 13:58 (Ref:1707997)

Late 71? Do you mean early 71? In 1972 he runs a March 722.

Ted Walker · 12 Sep 2006, 07:29 (Ref:1708558)

Going back a bit .I think that Barry Dutnall had a BT40 not a 30.

Chris Townsend · 13 Sep 2006, 08:38 (Ref:1709412)

John Smith's BT30 described as Rollinson's Bogota winning car MN 29.7.71 p.10 FL race at Kirkistown.

Suggests to me that IRC have in 1971
6 sold to Smith in April or thereabouts by the look of Irish libre results
8 the FVC car
12 the FVA car

Chris

allenbrown · 13 Sep 2006, 09:23 (Ref:1709441)

Excellent Chris! That really removes a lot of the uncertainty about these cars. I'll take another stab at the histories of all three.

Maybe I should give Spencer a call first...

allenbrown · 18 Sep 2006, 19:35 (Ref:1713141)

BT30-24
1970
May 24th Zolder Howden Ganley 14th
May 25th Crystal Palace Howden Ganley dns
June 14th Hockenehim Howden Ganley 18th
July 26th La Castellet Howden Ganley 28th
August 30th Mantorp Richard Scott 10th
September 13th Phoenix Park Richard Scott 2nd
September 27th Imola Richard Scott dnq
October 11th Hockenheim Richard Scott 17th
1971
February 14th Bogota Jurg Dubler 11th
February 21st Bogota Jurg Dubler 14th
April 4th Hockenheim Jurg Dubler dns
April 12th Thruxton Jurg Dubler dnq
May 4th Nurburgring Jurg Dubler 13th
May 16th Jarama Jurg Dubler dnq
June 13th Vallelunga Jurg Dubler 15th
June 20th Monza Jurg Dubler 8th
June 27th Rouen Jurg Dubler dnq
July 25th Imola Jurg Dubler 17th
August 8th Mantorp Jurg Dubler 24th
August 30th Brands Hatch Jurg Dubler dna
1972
Michel Pignard ("ex-Dubler F2 Brabham") French hill climbs with 1600cc engine(overall wins at Beauvais, Périgueux, Poissons, Belboeuf and Saumur)
1973
Michel Pignard French hill climbs with 2-litre engine (overall wins at Beaune St Romain, Lodève and Bournezeau then replaced by a F2 Pygmée).
Nothing more ‘till
1990 Gerard Gamand, France and then reported 2003 Gerard Cerny, France

allenbrown · 18 Sep 2006, 20:00 (Ref:1713168)

But ... on a rare occasion when the model of Pignard's car is given, at Echelette in 1973 (Echappement Aug 1973 p105), it appears as a BT36. It has a BT36 nose as well.

allenbrown · 18 Sep 2006, 20:29 (Ref:1713209)

Sorry - just noticed that I gave the impression Pignard had the BT36 all 1973. He repurchased his old Pygmee from Lachaud in June 1973 and the Brabham isn't seen again after that.

Andrew Fellowes · 18 Sep 2006, 21:09 (Ref:1713238)

I also have the following on what I assume is BT30-24

1972 A/S Jan 20 p.44 Albert Obrist BT30 FVA for sale

Andrew

allenbrown · 15 Oct 2006, 21:21 (Ref:1738720)

As Chris has already hinted, F2 1971 will be posted on OldRacingCars.com soon. Working through Chris's immaculate research, the history of the three Irish Racing Cars BT30s in 1971 is becoming a lot clearer. It is as Chris said above:

BT30-6 Rollinson at Bogota Feb 1971; John Smith 10 races (+ 2 DNS) in Irish libre from Mondello Park 12 April to Mondello 3 Oct 1971.
BT30-8 Reid's FVC libre car 11 races from Mondello 13 Mar to Mondello 17 Oct.
BT30-12 Reid's FVA F2 car 5 races (1 F2 race + 1 DNQ; 1 F5000 race; 4 libre races all won) from Mallory 14 Mar to Ingliston 10 Oct.

Based on this, I'm confident that BT30-8 went to England at the end of 1971 but Reid kept his FVA car for the early part of 1972 until his BT38 arrived. This early season BT30 goes to Nelson Todd in July 1972 and he races it until March 1973. The next time we see BT30-12 with any certainty is when Harold McGarrity has it in 1974. This neatly allows for it being John Pollock's BT30 from July to October 1973 but I can't recall how we know that.

So I'm now brave enough to start crossing things out from our previous histories of these cars as well as adding a few things:

BT30-6 Irish Racing Cars
1969
April 7th Thruxton Alan Rollinson
June 29th Reims Alan Rollinson
August 24th Enna Alan Rollinson
September 14th Albi Alan Rollinson
October 12th Vallelunga Alan Rollinson
1970
1971
February 14th Bogota Alan Rollinson
February 21st Bogota Alan Rollinson
1971 John Smith (NOT Nelson Todd)
1972 17th Feb, Bob Howlings for sale ex Rollinson
1972 Ken Walker/Peter Kaye
1973 A/S Jan 25th p.48 Rollinson/Bogota, Adrian Bethall, Sheffield 686171
? late 1973 Choat/Hardesty "ex-Rollinson"
? ex-Feltham Glassworks advertised from London
19?? Next recorded Jon Bradburn
1982-5 Jim Wallis raced in Historics
1985 Bob Howlings
1986 Tony Thompson
to Chris Farrell, Australia.
2005 restoration nearing completion.

BT30-8 Irish Racing Cars
1969
April 7th Thruxton Tommy Reid dna
October 12th Vallelunga Tommy Reid 20th
1970
May 25th Crystal Palace Alan Rollinson 10th
September 13th Phoenix Park Tommy Reid dna
November 22nd Israel Tommy Reid 6
1971 Tommy Reid's FVC car in Ireland
(1971 NOT 11th July, Mondello Park, John Smith)
1971 Bob Howlings, for sale 18-11-1971 p. 59
(1972 NOT "possibly John Smith")
? 1972-1975 maybe Vincent family
? Spencer Elton and a tree at Wiscombe
? Bob Wilson
Jon Bradburn
mid-1980s Simon Hadfield (bought from Bradburn "ex-hillclimber")
1986 Andrew Fellowes, restored & raced in HSCC with FVA
1990 George Nuse. Aluminium tanks retained but now with BT36 bag tanks
1992 Jordan Harris
2005 for sale

BT30-12 Irish Racing Cars
1970
March 30th Thruxton Tommy Reid 9th
July 26th La Castellet Tommy Reid 19th
September 13th Phoenix Park Allan Rollinson 1st
1971
March 14th Mallory Tommy Reid 9th
April 12th Thruxton Tommy Reid dnq
July 11th Mondello Tommy Reid 9th
August 30th Brands Hatch Tommy Reid dna
Also used in Irish and Scottish libre racing 1971
(1972 NOT 20th Jan. for sale Bob Howlings)
1972 Tommy Reid Irish libre
1972 (from July) Nelson Todd Irish libre
1973 John Pollock,
then to Harold McGarrity
1975 Paddy Heron
understood to have gone to Barbados and subsequently owned by Mike Freeman
2003 James Murray
2006 new owner?

Andrew Fellowes · 15 Oct 2006, 22:41 (Ref:1738781)

I am amazed that you have managed to untangle that lot, fantastic stuff!

I have no ref. against Pollock either.

2006 BT30-12 FVA, for sale Neil Glover. UKP 59,000 (purchase 2004)

-have I got that correct James?

**John Turner** · 16 Oct 2006, 08:04 (Ref:1738947)

As I've stated earlier, Neil Glover was the owner of BT30-12 at the beginning of this year and Michael Scott acquired it from Neil, mid season (and you know that, already, Allen!

), . I'm assuming James sold it to Neil in 2004. As Andrew asks, is that correct, James?

James Murray · 16 Oct 2006, 08:23 (Ref:1738959)

Re: BT30-12

1. My dad (Roger Murray) bought it from Mike Feeman in 1991 and sold it to Neil Glover in 2004.

2. It is now owned by Mike Scott who swapped it with Neil Glover for a Lola T300 earlier this year.

Not sure who owned it prior to Mike, possibly Howlings brought it back from the carribean when it was owned by Chris Sherratt?

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