Toyota/Rebellion Racing - Le Mans/ILMC/LMS - 2011 (merged)

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by TF110

Where'd you pick up that information from? I could see the LFA in GT1 and GTE(2), but I'd rather it in GT1 so the speeds could be shown off. I don't want that engine to be limited like it was in the VLN Nurburgring races. It's too great of an engine with that sound to be hampered with restrictions. It's said to be able to rev past 11k rpm but for street cars it's revs were reduced to 'just' 9500rpm max for longevity. It's already a screamer, imagine it in GT1 without so much restriction. That won't happen in GTE, aren't the cars limited to around 480hp? The LFA makes 70 more HP than that in stock trim. I like GTE but GT1 just seems it would suit the LFA better.

It was just a car that Autosport suggested in their article. Nothing more than an option at this point. The real news was the interest in GT2 but nothing will get confirmed until their meeting later this month. Its not as if the Japanese ever rush into these things.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TF110

Where'd you pick up that information from? I could see the LFA in GT1 and GTE(2), but I'd rather it in GT1 so the speeds could be shown off. I don't want that engine to be limited like it was in the VLN Nurburgring races. It's too great of an engine with that sound to be hampered with restrictions. It's said to be able to rev past 11k rpm but for street cars it's revs were reduced to 'just' 9500rpm max for longevity. It's already a screamer, imagine it in GT1 without so much restriction. That won't happen in GTE, aren't the cars limited to around 480hp? The LFA makes 70 more HP than that in stock trim. I like GTE but GT1 just seems it would suit the LFA better.

According to Autosport TTE favours a WRC return while Toyota Japan are looking at GTE.

The new car has to pay it's way so will be for customers.

In GTE there are plans to allow more powerful engines, capping top speeds with limiters.

This is needed as cars like the Ferrari 458 and Mclaren MP4 are coming.

[Japanese Samurai]

If LFA participates in GTE, it is likely to become participation by the LEXUS brand.
Toyota will do the motor sports activity by the TOYOTA brand, too.

[I Rosputnik]

Here's rather wild, but maybe realistic guess.

Toyota develop an LFA LMGT and enter the LMIC, while another team (Maybe Vitaphone) convert a few spare LFA LMGT's to GT1 spec.

It's pie in the sky.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

If LFA participates in GTE, it is likely to become participation by the LEXUS brand.
Toyota will do the motor sports activity by the TOYOTA brand, too.

Lexus-LFA GT-E possibly GT1 with Vitaphone-I'm not sure if they'd do both.

Toyota-WRC?

And if the cars have to pay for themsleves then GT-E would make more sense as there would be more of a market for the GT-E LFA as opposed to GT1 where they might sell four at the most to Vitaphone and possibly Triple H.

Well hopefully the LFA ends up in at least one of those classes.

[cmk]

Depending on the degree to which Toyota branding is involved with the Rebellion programme, there could be economies of scale in getting involved with GTE. These would not reveal themselves in the competition front, but rather in the marketing front. If Toyota wants to get involved as a race or series sponsor (which could be good for the LMS too), then it would increase its relevant exposure and thus its likelihood of investment if it had more cars running, particularly one which actually looked like a road car! As Japanese Samurai mentions, it could also capitalize on Lexus and Toyota branding synchronously.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by rich07

Lexus-LFA GT-E possibly GT1 with Vitaphone-I'm not sure if they'd do both.

Toyota-WRC?

And if the cars have to pay for themsleves then GT-E would make more sense as there would be more of a market for the GT-E LFA as opposed to GT1 where they might sell four at the most to Vitaphone and possibly Triple H.

Well hopefully the LFA ends up in at least one of those classes.

I think they want the car to win, rather than sell as many as possible. I really doubt the LFA venture would be about making the car pay for itself.

[TF110]

Yeah, I think they're interested in GT1 because of the fact that Nissan has the GTR in there as well. GTE in LMS or LeMans is good, but how many races will it see? Is there more racing in LMS or GT1? I know there might be more of an audience for LMS or LeMans, but GT1 might grow to be pretty popular, and since Toyota officials have been in attendance at a few of the past races in GT1, I think it speaks that they're interested. Although they were involved with future regs of LeMans also, weren't they?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by TF110

Yeah, I think they're interested in GT1 because of the fact that Nissan has the GTR in there as well. GTE in LMS or LeMans is good, but how many races will it see? Is there more racing in LMS or GT1? I know there might be more of an audience for LMS or LeMans, but GT1 might grow to be pretty popular, and since Toyota officials have been in attendance at a few of the past races in GT1, I think it speaks that they're interested. Although they were involved with future regs of LeMans also, weren't they?

It all depends who they want to compete against. A bunch of privately run teams or the increased manufacturer presence that comes with GT2.

I'm no expert on the GT1 championship but I don't see where the new cars are coming from. So maybe Toyota but where that series goes in the future I have no idea.Most of the field was outdated three years ago.

[Speed-King]

I think they could easily run the GT1 series with a mildly modified GTE-car, so that's - strictly speaking - not a case of one series or the other...

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I think they could easily run the GT1 series with a mildly modified GTE-car, so that's - strictly speaking - not a case of one series or the other...

This definitely makes the most sense. Especially given the project has to be financially viable.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Simmi

This definitely makes the most sense. Especially given the project has to be financially viable.

They aren't going to be running a works team either way so

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

They aren't going to be running a works team either way so

I'd say GT2 gives them much more scope to run something with a good works supported partnership like we see the vast majority of GT2 teams doing. No one from Toyota has categorically said they will all be privateer-run. The things are going to come out of TTE. They just have to make sure they aren't making a loss so if they can entice some customers to buy some cars then that will solve that.

Nothing has been decided for sure as it will all be thrashed out at a meeting in Japan later this month.

[Matador]

^ Believe me when I tell you they wont be producing/selling any LFAs to go racing on that, lest they be running around the prototypes they have running around now.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

^ Believe me when I tell you they wont be producing/selling any LFAs to go racing on that, lest they be running around the prototypes they have running around now.

That's funny, what do you call the 2 cars that ran at the Nurburgring? Were they not production LFA's even though they aren't currently in production? I think you should head over to gazooracing.com and take a look at what those LFA's were. No one said they aren't going to make a race LFA. They said they were only making 500 PRODUCTION LFA's. But who know's who bought those LFA's? Maybe the guys at Gazoo racing already have purchased a few and are prepping them to make a run in GT1. Gazoo is Toyota backed, but it doesn't seem to be a works type of team. I could be wrong though, but I don't see why not.

GT1 might have older cars, but the F430 the Porsche GT3 the M3GT2 are all pretty much the same cars as 3 or 4 years ago. So where do you get off saying GT1 is old cars? What NEW cars are in LMS? The 458 won't make it's debut until next year. They still have Ford GT's running in GT2 in ALMS. So you never know. GT1 could potentially be a hit if it's played right. I don't see why not. The GTR is a new car, the B6 next year will be 'new', as would an LFA. How many new GT's will be LeMans or LMS or ALMS next season?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TF110

Yeah, I think they're interested in GT1 because of the fact that Nissan has the GTR in there as well. GTE in LMS or LeMans is good, but how many races will it see? Is there more racing in LMS or GT1? I know there might be more of an audience for LMS or LeMans, but GT1 might grow to be pretty popular, and since Toyota officials have been in attendance at a few of the past races in GT1, I think it speaks that they're interested. Although they were involved with future regs of LeMans also, weren't they?

When you look at the racing, fan appeal and media interest surrounding the GT2 battle at Petit Le Mans and expand that to Sebring, Le Mans, Spa, Silverstone, China etc. I'm not sure GT1 stacks up all that well.

A company like Toyota will also factor in the use of hybrid technology and alternative fuels when considering what kind of GT car they want to respresent the brand.

Like it or not a few years down the line it may be frowned upon to campaign big engined racing cars with no consideration for green technology. Much as we love them the V12 Murcielago looks like a dinosaur from a bygone era when put up against the Porsche hybrid or E85 Corvette.

The fact I am reelling off terms like E85 show how the marketing speak sinks in after a while!

This applies equally to Nissan who I think it's fair to say rather misjudged the GT landscape when they gave the green light to the GT1 GT-R..............or perhaps they simply saw an opportunity to build a low budget parts bin special?

[Simmi]

I agree with JAG if I was Toyota I know where I'd go. The fact the racing is so thrilling over long distances and the marketability that comes from some of the prestige events and beating the competition. And in terms of longevity. There's no competition.

Quite simply I'm not a fan of the GT1 Championship. It's fine how it is as a retirement home for these once great vehicles. But to actually build something specifically to join that championship now? Smaller projects like the Alpina fair enough. Toyota should have loftier ambitions for a return to sportscars.

[TF110]

I really just laugh at the 'green' movement. No racing is 'green' no matter what fuel or what technology you use. KERS, great! Diesel, sure! Thing is, Toyota was spotted in the paddock at more than one GT1 race. They were also at LeMans. That's not saying they can't do both. I'd rather see them in GT1 because of the restrictions placed upon the GTE(2) cars. FIA isn't small, the ACO isn't either. But to think that the FIA will let GT1 die is just dumb. If anything GT3 might be the new GT1. Mercedes is there with their SLS, Nissan is there with their GTR, Audi is there with their R8, it goes on. Corvette is there, Lamborghini is there, Alpina BMW is there, Aston Martin is there. GT2 is great but GT3/1 is bigger. Don't let the attendance fool you. There's just as many if not more people that show up to FIA GT racing as there is LMS racing events. With plans to expand the calendar next year and include canada and the US and China, I don't see how a 5 or 6 race calendar with LMS will stack up, ILMC is great and all but that's the same too, 6 rounds. ALMS isn't really looking like it's in the picture for Toyota right now either. ALMS is nothing compared to the NASCAR attendance, and Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch are two of the best in NASCAR, they've got the US covered in that front. While I like LeMans style racing, ALMS isn't true endurance events. 3 hour races? That's a short NASCAR race without many cautions. The big races are the First (sebring) Middle being LeMans and last (Petit). You see where 3 BIG races is, and then you see where a WORLD championship is.

I know there's GT1 haters on here but High-Powered super cars or GT's aren't going away, sorry. Lamborghini, that's their business, Aston Martin as well, Ferrari is High-powered cars and GT's also. You see where I'm coming from?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

I really just laugh at the 'green' movement. No racing is 'green' no matter what fuel or what technology you use. KERS, great! Diesel, sure! Thing is, Toyota was spotted in the paddock at more than one GT1 race. They were also at LeMans. That's not saying they can't do both. I'd rather see them in GT1 because of the restrictions placed upon the GTE(2) cars. FIA isn't small, the ACO isn't either. But to think that the FIA will let GT1 die is just dumb. If anything GT3 might be the new GT1. Mercedes is there with their SLS, Nissan is there with their GTR, Audi is there with their R8, it goes on. Corvette is there, Lamborghini is there, Alpina BMW is there, Aston Martin is there. GT2 is great but GT3/1 is bigger. Don't let the attendance fool you. There's just as many if not more people that show up to FIA GT racing as there is LMS racing events. With plans to expand the calendar next year and include canada and the US and China, I don't see how a 5 or 6 race calendar with LMS will stack up, ILMC is great and all but that's the same too, 6 rounds. ALMS isn't really looking like it's in the picture for Toyota right now either. ALMS is nothing compared to the NASCAR attendance, and Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch are two of the best in NASCAR, they've got the US covered in that front. While I like LeMans style racing, ALMS isn't true endurance events. 3 hour races? That's a short NASCAR race without many cautions. The big races are the First (sebring) Middle being LeMans and last (Petit). You see where 3 BIG races is, and then you see where a WORLD championship is.

I know there's GT1 haters on here but High-Powered super cars or GT's aren't going away, sorry. Lamborghini, that's their business, Aston Martin as well, Ferrari is High-powered cars and GT's also. You see where I'm coming from?

And where did GT-1 slot in at Le Mans?

Shill!


L.P.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by TF110

I really just laugh at the 'green' movement. No racing is 'green' no matter what fuel or what technology you use. KERS, great! Diesel, sure! Thing is, Toyota was spotted in the paddock at more than one GT1 race. They were also at LeMans. That's not saying they can't do both. I'd rather see them in GT1 because of the restrictions placed upon the GTE(2) cars. FIA isn't small, the ACO isn't either. But to think that the FIA will let GT1 die is just dumb. If anything GT3 might be the new GT1. Mercedes is there with their SLS, Nissan is there with their GTR, Audi is there with their R8, it goes on. Corvette is there, Lamborghini is there, Alpina BMW is there, Aston Martin is there. GT2 is great but GT3/1 is bigger. Don't let the attendance fool you. There's just as many if not more people that show up to FIA GT racing as there is LMS racing events. With plans to expand the calendar next year and include canada and the US and China, I don't see how a 5 or 6 race calendar with LMS will stack up, ILMC is great and all but that's the same too, 6 rounds. ALMS isn't really looking like it's in the picture for Toyota right now either. ALMS is nothing compared to the NASCAR attendance, and Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch are two of the best in NASCAR, they've got the US covered in that front. While I like LeMans style racing, ALMS isn't true endurance events. 3 hour races? That's a short NASCAR race without many cautions. The big races are the First (sebring) Middle being LeMans and last (Petit). You see where 3 BIG races is, and then you see where a WORLD championship is.

I know there's GT1 haters on here but High-Powered super cars or GT's aren't going away, sorry. Lamborghini, that's their business, Aston Martin as well, Ferrari is High-powered cars and GT's also. You see where I'm coming from?

The Porsche hybrid at PLM produced over 600bhp, combining compact 500bhp+ engines with such technology is the future for GT racing and road going supercars.

The ILMC/ALMS is were manufactuers go to prove their cutting edge technology in front of a world audience, the FIA GT1 series is where old cars go to get pensioned off.

There's room for both I'm just asking what is the best arena for a manufactuer like Toyota.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by TF110

That's funny, what do you call the 2 cars that ran at the Nurburgring? Were they not production LFA's even though they aren't currently in production? I think you should head over to gazooracing.com and take a look at what those LFA's were. No one said they aren't going to make a race LFA. They said they were only making 500 PRODUCTION LFA's. But who know's who bought those LFA's? Maybe the guys at Gazoo racing already have purchased a few and are prepping them to make a run in GT1. Gazoo is Toyota backed, but it doesn't seem to be a works type of team. I could be wrong though, but I don't see why not.

GT1 might have older cars, but the F430 the Porsche GT3 the M3GT2 are all pretty much the same cars as 3 or 4 years ago. So where do you get off saying GT1 is old cars? What NEW cars are in LMS? The 458 won't make it's debut until next year. They still have Ford GT's running in GT2 in ALMS. So you never know. GT1 could potentially be a hit if it's played right. I don't see why not. The GTR is a new car, the B6 next year will be 'new', as would an LFA. How many new GT's will be LeMans or LMS or ALMS next season?

ermmm. Gazoo racing IS a TOYOTA company, it is nto just Toyota backed. The cars they race are a few of the close to production testing prototypes.

[TF110]

Horn, no one is speaking about GT1 at LeMans. Is that all you do is go to LeMans in every post against GT1? I guess to you there is no other sports car racing that matters besides LeMans huh? How about Maserati? They haven't gone to LeMans with their MC12, well they weren't even allowed to run the MC12, but has that hurt them? They've won numerous FIA GT championships, and it looks as if they'll add this year's GT1 Championship to their tally. Maybe their shills too? I don't seek your approval with my comments. I'm not worried about your opinions on GT1. I'd rather see GT1 alive and well racing in it's own series than it being dead. If that's not what you think, that's great, move on.

And Gazoo racing is Toyota backed like I said. They are apart of Toyota but they're not considered Toyota Motorsports, you speak as if they're the factory effort. That's like Aston Martin and Young Driver. They are Toyota backed, that doesn't mean they aren't apart of Toyota or a Toyota company. I never said they weren't. Obviously they have to be if they were racing LFA's before it was even sold to the public. I'd like to see them in both series. If they choose to go to one I'd rather it be GT1. I am a fan of the GT1 racing, and no it's not perfect but nothing is.

It's funny when you sign up for this site and you get people calling you a shill and trying to blast every comment you make because they don't like your opinions. I've been lingering around here for a while but I never signed up. I figured I would because I like the discussions, now I get blasted for reasons that are basically because of my opinion. I wasn't aware people's own views weren't allowed in these forums. Maybe I should re-read the rules of this site.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

Horn, no one is speaking about GT1 at LeMans. Is that all you do is go to LeMans in every post against GT1? I guess to you there is no other sports car racing that matters besides LeMans huh?
Hmm, and who is it that compared GT-1 to GTE? Not me "I'd rather see them in GT1 because of the restrictions placed upon the GTE(2) cars." Sound familiar?
Le Mans is where GT-1 runs against the best of both ACO series GT-2(E)!

How about Maserati? They haven't gone to LeMans with their MC12, well they weren't even allowed to run the MC12, but has that hurt them? They've won numerous FIA GT championships, and it looks as if they'll add this year's GT1 Championship to their tally. Illegal by ACO rule.

Maybe their shills too? No, shills would be who represent them.

I don't seek your approval with my comments. I'm not worried about your opinions on GT1. I'd rather see GT1 alive and well racing in it's own series than it being dead. If that's not what you think, that's great, move on.

If the fact that someone presents facts in the presentation of an opposing opinion, or even has one, upsets, oh well!

It's funny when you sign up for this site and you get people calling you a shill and trying to blast every comment you make because they don't like your opinions. I've been lingering around here for a while but I never signed up. I figured I would because I like the discussions, now I get blasted for reasons that are basically because of my opinion. I wasn't aware people's own views weren't allowed in these forums. Maybe I should re-read the rules of this site.

Nobody said you could not have an opinion nor voice it, but that is a two way street. When pushing GT-1 into a conversation about Le Mans (please read thread title) one should expect to run into opposing views.





L.P.

[TF110]

I spoke my opinion. I'd rather see them in GT1 than in GTE if they were to do one. If you thought I meant not in GTE altogether that's not what I was getting at. LeMans is viewed by a lot more people than FIA GT, true, but I'd still like to see the LFA in both. That's what I was getting at. I never said I'd rather see them in one or the other. I'd like both, but if they do only ONE, GT1 would be my choice because of the reasons I gave. I just hope GTE can become a more open class in terms of engine regulations. I mean the power they produce. It'd be great to see them running more than 500HP, of course with updates considered like paddle shifting, it would be closer to what these cars are on the street in terms of transmissions. So I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating that if Toyota enter the LFA, I think they should go both places. But a page or so back it was said that if they enter one instead of both, which would people rather see. I think GT1 for me. Just because I don't want to see the LFA's engine being restricted so much.

[6157]

Originally Posted by JAG

There's room for both I'm just asking what is the best arena for a manufactuer like Toyota.

Seriously? And right after you posted this, no less...

Originally Posted by JAG

The ILMC/ALMS is were manufactuers go to prove their cutting edge technology in front of a world audience, the FIA GT1 series is where old cars go to get pensioned off.

GT1 is a dead class. It's being propped up by the arrogance of a man who can't accept he cannot force manufacturers into running years old cars and technology. If Toyota wants any relevance in sports car racing, they'll be running ALMS/LeMans.