History of a Lola T492 Sports 2000 chassis?

[Dan Rear]

Blimey Bob, did they really make 101 T490/492s! I reckon you're about right on 29 for Britain, I guess a few went to Europe for their series, including Denmark who had the first non-UK races in 1978 I think. The rest were US bound I presume. Does the 101 include the C-Sports spec 'T496s'?

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

did they really make 101 T490/492s!

As we're into the Christmas Panto season : " Oh no they didn't ! " " Oh yes they did ! " .

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

As we're into the Christmas Panto season : " Oh no they didn't ! " " Oh yes they did ! " .

He's behind you!

[bob k.]

Dan, apperently they did not build 101 cars, only the chassis numbers went to 101. There is no listing for a chassis 13 (bad luck?) nor of a chassis #85 ? Anyone know why? Chassis # 3 designated as 3B was a development chassis that went to Switzerland as a hill climber not as an S2000. So that leaves us with 98 S2000 cars in the 490 series
My addition leaves something to be desired -- there were 30 cars to UK not 29, list below

47 to US
30. to GB
11 to Holland
7 to Sweden
2 to Denmark
1 to France

The T496 had 4 cars made and the T497 had 6 cars made

bob k.

[911thillclimber]

Had a good chat with Glyn at Lola today. He loves the car, but must have lots of facts in letter/email form as the forum info is too 'here-say'.

This might take a bit longer than I thought!

Just one last push then...

[driftwood]

his comment of too "hear say " is frankly tosh it is not rocket science to work out this car and after all it is a £10k car not 300k car
to be honest it will be hard to satisfy him you can get some leters from folk but not all
yiou will be beter off getting yr own plate and stamping it up and get on with your life

[911thillclimber]

Yes: my last push is to get a statement from Tony Dickinson (who Glyn knows) to verify the scars on the car are from his 'era'. With the forum content and a few emails I have that's it.
Harry is dead, Alan is in Spain and i've spoken to the other cast members of this Opera!

Lola have to follow FIA rules on this kind of thing. Glyn accepts this is a bitza T490 and I'm not looking to get FIA papers for fancy races with a £300K Lola on a 'dodgy' tub.

I can't find a chassis plate supplier!

If I could get a fresh one I would stamp it and as you say carry on riveting and welding and go racing asap in 2009.

If Tony says it is not his tub then bo*7oxs. Life is certainly too short to worry!

[driftwood]

i had quotes to make new plates run of 10 at 35each plus voda n tonic
down side was
1 i did not have 4 blokes who needed plates/didnwat to tie up 400 quid for everyone elses benefit and not mine 400 is 2 races 30 rides with hookers or nearly 200 beers!

2 now i dont have plate to copy as i sold my other gp 6 lola i had at the time

i have seen some cheap looking plates for sale on ebay at £5 but they dont look right colour rubs off easily not etched in

[Clive Brown]

Even if you can't get confirmation direct from Alan Humberstone , you not only have testimony from Tony Harman and John Schneider , but you will also have evidence both of input to the Humberstones ( from Tony Dickinson ) , and output from the Humberstones ( from Brian Davis ) . You also have the photographic evidence of Alan Humberstone racing the Skoda at Lydden in identifiably the same form in which Tony Dickinson raced it in the Oulton Park picture incorrectly attributed to 1980 , to which I drew your attention a few days ago .

I think we have now reached the " beyond all reasonable doubt " stage !

[driftwood]

Clive
I sent u mail with fred info i await the bottle of 1856 vintage bottle of wine
i agree i had same nonsense for my t290 car i got from japan i have fotos of car every year every body comb engine combo every race result EVEN the massive crash that broke drivers legs

i even had the gearbox number to tie car to their sales files /records etc and they still wanted letters from owners
i told him he was a fkn lunatic
it took me 4 years to get the 1st owner and the mechanic for the last owner to acknowledge they even owned/worked on the car - that is the japanese way- only had confrimation when we gave them photos of the car the had to open their mouths and say yes that is our car we did this did that sold it to this guy= all i ever knew
yes means no if you can understand that then you can deal with the japanese
it took me 2-3 years to grasp the concept even for a simple thing like asking a mechanic to give us a quick lift with chassis into a van was a major excercise

any way with Lolas approach i thought stuff them dont need that sort of agro it was unhelpful if common sense cannot prevail heaven helps us

[911thillclimber]

Just spoken to TD again to check my email + pics are with him. Address was right and he will look at them tomorrow.

However....

I think this Lola of mine is NOT HU6. In fact I think this tub does not exist anymore.

Tony described the front cage attachment points which from memory sitting here at work are NOT on my tub (8 x 3/8 holes are hard not to recall!)
I think i mis-understood tony on my last call and the holes he was talking of are in the tub, not the bulk head.

The holes in the rear bulkhead i have are NOT the engine mount holes.
The Hart he fitted was mounted on triangular plates welded to the top and botton steel tubes of the rear frame.

Even if carefully cut off they would leave 'evidence' of them being there. Now:

Theere are scars on the lower tubes, but I will have to look again at the upper tubes that I kept to see if there are similar scars.

He will look at the pics anyway tomorrow and respond, but I am most doubtful he will say the tub is his.

This will be a big dissapointment, but I can carry on!

All I can say at this time is after the Alan Humberston Big Crash the TD tub as written off, and another tub found and the suspension re-used (no suspension damage is evident at all). could this tub be a spare part from Lola which is why there is no chassis number? I am convinced the tub is a Lola!

I will get back in touch with John Sch and Tony Harman and see if they remember anything else esp reworking the car after a crash.

Feeling deflated now, man flu has arrived, and work is cr@p!

Soon be Xmas.

[simon drabble]

I have a soft spot for S2000 and have therefore been flicking thriough this thread - I see Humberstone's name mentioned on a number of occassions. Is this the same Humberstone who ran a saloon car team?

[Clive Brown]

I would be very surprised if the mounting points for the roll cage were in the actual tub . On David Enderby's Karmann Ghia , the main hoop of the roll cage was fixed into the original Tiga mounts , and the front legs were bolted each with a single horizontal bolt into lugs welded onto plates which were themselves rivetted to the corners of the monocoque . You wouldn't bolt a roll cage directly to the aluminium sheeting of the monocoque !

Furthermore , I suspect that the rollcage mounts to accept Karmann Ghia bodywork would be little different from those required for a Skoda ! If you look at the pictures of TD's Skoda , the main roll hoop is nowhere near the 'B' post position of the bodywork .

Can I ask what information leads you to believe that the original monocoque was written off , as opposed to having sustained reparable damage ?

Finally , even if the monocoque was replaced with a spare from Lola , to me and I think Driftwood , the lineage of HU6 would be passed on . Should someone later have repaired the discarded moncoque and built it up using new or spare suspension components , that car would not be HU6 !

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I have a soft spot for S2000 and have therefore been flicking thriough this thread - I see Humberstone's name mentioned on a number of occassions. Is this the same Humberstone who ran a saloon car team?

Yes , and just to assist in the confusion , he raced a Lola ! Fortunately for this thread , though , it was a T590 !

[Steve Wilkinson]

1980 and Alan Humberstone was racing a Lola in Sports 2000 - could this be your chassis Graham?

Hope you get over the man-flu in time for Christmas!

[Dan Rear]

Not if Graham's chassis is a T490/492, Steve. As Clive says, Alan H was in a T590 that year, not the older one.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Not if Graham's chassis is a T490/492, Steve. As Clive says, Alan H was in a T590 that year, not the older one.

He was entered by the Wilkinson Sword team and the car was listed as a T590 Titan in two of the events I saw that year.

Are we sure it was a T590?

[Dan Rear]

Yeah deffo Steve, it was a 2-car 'Kent T590' team. Nick Cole had the other car, occasionally Mike Blanchet had a go, Norman Paine too IIRC.

[driftwood]

t490 totaly different car to 590
490-492 same car!
yes clive i agree new tub on old car is the hu6 living on

[911thillclimber]

I can only repeat TD words to me.

He was NOT at the Lydden meeting, just heard through the grapevine that Alan had a Big One against the pit wall on the drivers side and was luck to escape serious greif.

He was told the car was a write-off.

The suspension on my car is exactly as TD described, right to the bump steer mods.

My tub does have repairs to the driver's rear corner, and quite extensive to but the rear suspension mounts are sound, zero distortion.

The comments on the cage mounting is a good one but TD was clear, he drilled 8 3/8 holes in each front corner for the saloon cage.

Also, key to this is the rear engine mounts that have been cut off ages ago, so i need to look at the tubes I have removed which i kept as 'history'.
If the top tubes have scars then I think I still might prove the tub is HU6.

Lola do not have any records of spares sold, even full tubs.

I have emailed Tony Harman (Haggispeed) for more details of the work he did for Harry and Alan H.

Thanks for keeping this quest going as I was loosing heart TBH.

Graham.

[Clive Brown]

The business of the rollcage is interesting ; 8x 3/8" holes per front mount sounds a bit over the top to say the least ! Unfortunately , the only picture of the car partially unclothed is that rear ¾ view , and the driver's door masks the view of the front corner of the monocoque .

The question of rollcage mountings also arises in terms of the car's career as a Karmann Ghia . If Mike Ingles had the car with the Karmann Ghia body still mounted , it must have had the KG rollcage on it at the time ; to which point of the chassis were the front legs fixed ? It seems unlikely that they were fixed to the forward mounting points of the factory T490 arrangement , as this would have intruded somewhat on the driver's forward vision , so are there any marks on the front corners of the monocoque which give any clue as to where they might have been located ?

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Yes , and just to assist in the confusion , he raced a Lola ! Fortunately for this thread , though , it was a T590 !

Didn't he gave an enforced lay off from racing for a few years whilst he was detained at Her Majesty's pleasure? Or am I confusing him with another tin top Humberstone?

[911thillclimber]

When Mike got the car the Ghia body was resting on top of this tub.
The Ghia cage WAS on the car, and Mike removed/threw it to fabricate his own T 490/2 front hoop.
One side of the new hoop linked to the Lola tub plates (gear **** side) and the other was all new made by Mike and rivited to the tub, possibly covering the TD frame holes.

Here are the front corners off my tub:






I do think it is a good point that if you were converting this type os car to Saloon you would use the Lola front hoop points for a screen cage, but wouldn't that obstruct the visibility?

I hope TD can look at the pics today.

Incidentally, just to knock the stuffing out of this tub, there are no visible/'feelable' scars of any welding on the rear tubes of engine plate for the Hart, but i haven't looked at the top tubes I've removed yet.

[driftwood]

Mr H i believe did not have a holiday at the tax payers expense his mates did though-next subject!

[Clive Brown]

I thought Alan did enjoy a brief spell as a guest of HMQ in the Crossbar Hotel , but the first Vic Lee drug trial wasn't until 1993 , so that was well after the period during which the main events relevant to this thread occurred .