FIA App K regulations - 01-01-2012

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

I'm trying to confirm valve and choke sizes for App.K Lotus Cortina. Does anyone know or can give me the number of the homologation papers. Thanks

A quick check of the 1966 Homologation papers shows a 40mm choke size for the Carb , & valve diameters of 38.86 mm inlet , 33.66 mm exhaust

[Gerard C]

We're talking about Grp1 aint we?
Want a nugget? Amendment 4 Evolution or Optional Equipment Group II, 16a # Ref 159 Connecting Rod Weight 650 kgs. (with bolts)
You need four of them… and total weight for the car is 812 kgs (amendment #1)

Robyn having a look to appendix K is worth most of time…

[Robyn Slater]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

A quick check of the 1966 Homologation papers shows a 40mm choke size for the Carb , & valve diameters of 38.86 mm inlet , 33.66 mm exhaust

They would be standard diameter (not sprint BVH size then).

40mm choke size or 40 DCOE? I had assumed App.K could use 45DCOEs.

I'm trying to determine if there's a maximum (removeable) choke size.

Thanks

[Mike Bell]

Although I believe the dimensions Robyn is looking for are the same, my take is that it is the earlier 1963 homologation #108 for FiA cars?

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

They would be standard diameter (not sprint BVH size then).

40mm choke size or 40 DCOE? I had assumed App.K could use 45DCOEs.

I'm trying to determine if there's a maximum (removeable) choke size.

Thanks

The paper I looked at was Gp 1 .
That had the carb size listed as 40 MM , so a 40 DCOE should be used in Gp 1.
If it was running as Gp 2 then carbs were " free " , so any size could be used

The removeable chokes would be sized to suit how it was running , & along with jet sizes were also " free" under Gp 1 rules .

I will have a look through some other papers to see if bigger valves were homologated for later models .

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

They would be standard diameter (not sprint BVH size then).

40mm choke size or 40 DCOE? I had assumed App.K could use 45DCOEs.

I'm trying to determine if there's a maximum (removeable) choke size.

Thanks

Had a look through the later [ 1967 Mk 2 Lotus Cortina Gp 1 ] , papers & that still has the same valve sizes as the Mk 1 cars .

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

Had a look through the later [ 1967 Mk 2 Lotus Cortina Gp 1 ] , papers & that still has the same valve sizes as the Mk 1 cars .

Also looked through Mikes GT 108 papers which still has the same size valves

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

Also looked through Mikes GT 108 papers which still has the same size valves

Indeed. I had some dealings with a 1966 Lotus Cortina, and although a later car it had to be prepared to the spec in the earlier papers for HTP.

As you said a few posts ago, the homologation papers have to be used in conjunction with appendix K to get the whole picture, and possibly J for the period as well.

[Tel 911S]

Had a bit more time to look through the papers .

There is some Gp2 options on the end of the Gp 1 papers which allow larger valves .

So it will depend on what rules you are running under along with App k .

It can be very difficult to know as some historic rules allow only Gp 1 & some allow Gp 2 options

[Duddha]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

Had a bit more time to look through the papers .

There is some Gp2 options on the end of the Gp 1 papers which allow larger valves .

So it will depend on what rules you are running under along with App k .

It can be very difficult to know as some historic rules allow only Gp 1 & some allow Gp 2 options

What are you exactly looking for? What make and model and what year of specification, also will it be a standard touring car or modified?

I could possibly help.

[Mike Bell]

Duddha- here’s the original question from Robyn-

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

I'm trying to confirm valve and choke sizes for App.K Lotus Cortina. Does anyone know or can give me the number of the homologation papers. Thanks

[Robyn Slater]

Originally Posted by Duddha

What are you exactly looking for? What make and model and what year of specification, also will it be a standard touring car or modified?

I could possibly help.

I find this FIA stuff so confusing. I,m interested it the spec. for MK1 Lotus Cortina as run in U2TC/Masters etc.
I have no idea whether they are standard touring or GP1.
Mike speaks of App K and App J. Can you explain how this works?

Thanks,R

[Duddha]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

I find this FIA stuff so confusing. I,m interested it the spec. for MK1 Lotus Cortina as run in U2TC/Masters etc.
I have no idea whether they are standard touring or GP1.
Mike speaks of App K and App J. Can you explain how this works?

Thanks,R

In the right order so you can understand Robyn:

Appendix J - period ones - are the regulations which govern the homologation aspects of a car - as it is today as well - and also point to the freedoms which are granted to each category of cars.

Appendix K - the historic motorsport and actual regulations - does exist to either clarify or restrict period and "unsafe" practice as well as to accomodate today's requirements in terms of safety or parts availability, etc. Still, it works in accordance with period Appendix J, they are complementary.

Then and on Cortina to Appendix K standards, we here talk of Period F cars which is for homologated cars from 1963-1965 included.

Applicable regulations of period and homologations are 1965 Group 2 Improved Touring Cars and form #1224.

Homologated and standard production FORD Consul Cortina Lotus specification for:

- valves are - INLET 38.86mm / EXHAUST 33.66mm
- Weber 40DCOE - Choke diameter - 30mm

BUT note that different choke sizes were later introduced as on the HOMOLOGATION which is fully available here as well as all relevant regulations - https://historicdb.fia.com/

Also understant that carburettors could be changed to different ones as Appendix J permitted, which means the cars can run any bigger WEBER carburettor that fits the original manifold in terms of mountings. We today see 45 Webers on most cars.

Hope it clarifies the question.

[Mike Bell]

Thanks once again for the input, Duddha!

The different homologations #s for the car is confusing! I looked up the copy I have and it was indeed 1224. Makes sense as it includes the change to leaf springs!

[Gerard C]

Apologies to you Robyn for pointing to the wrong direction naming homologation form # 5018. By the way the person signing Duddha belongs to the FIA. Not an excuse for my mistake but a good reason to follow his advice and not mine…

[Robyn Slater]

Thanks all for your input.
Its becoming clearer now.

1224 I assume is the original homologation,App.J ?

If so what is the ref no. for App.K?

Or have I still not got this???

[Peter Mallett]

I think it only fair to say that he is our Duddha and the FIA is only borrowing him.

Robyn. I think you need to read The Homologation form and see what bits the manufacturer made for the car. Then look at App J and see what the FIA allowed for international racing. Then go to App K and see what limitations there are now such as a maximum overbore which may be less than the App J of the period allowed (an example I don't know if it is fact).

App J ws/is the regulations for particular types of racing. In the UK we had the Blue Book for.pur major championships. The homologation form is produced by the manufacturer then submitted to the FIA for stamping. App K is the sporting regulations for all types of historic motorsport.

[Mike Bell]

2019 version of Appendix K here

https://www.fia.com/historic-regulations

1965 version of Appendix J here (Chapter III, Gp2 Improved Touring Cars)

https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def...dix_j_1965.pdf

Homologation form #1224 here

https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def...24_group_t.pdf

[Robyn Slater]

Thanks Mike. When I've got a couple of days spare I'll study those docs.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

Thanks Mike. When I've got a couple of days spare I'll study those docs.

Problem with AppK is that you only really need to study the parts of it that relate to your car category. But you finish up reading the lot to find them....

AppJ is straightforward, just the chapter mentioned for specifics, and the homologation papers aren’t lengthy. You get the later added homologations at the end, so don’t miss them.

[Gerard C]

Almost forget, Robyn if you're interested in series like Masters or Peter Auto lets say anything "big" you'll need to have your car HTP'd. There's another thread for this. Need a bad co-driver you'd like to humiliate from this side of the Channel? Just ask for Momo GG…

[Duddha]

2020 Appendix K is now online - https://www.fia.com/file/112810/download

[Duddha]

2020 Appendix K as of 10.03.2020 is now available here.

Main update is deletion and move of Article 6.19 to Appendix K to a dedicated Appendix XIII for Formula Junior cars.

[Duddha]

2021 FIA Appendix K - Published on 18.12.2020 - Applicable 01.01.2020

[Peter Mallett]

Thanks Louis.