TVR Griffiths 200/400 and their Chassis Numbers - Page 11

Mike Wroe · 17 Feb 2009, 14:03 (Ref:2399038)

And heres a few more

Flyingfox_01 · 19 Feb 2009, 21:22 (Ref:2400459)

Looks very nice Mike

The early picture shows how TVR Griffith were in period.

esper · 20 Feb 2009, 07:33 (Ref:2400657)

which period?

Moby · 24 Feb 2009, 03:41 (Ref:2402879)

Just as a matter of interest I am just about to get rid of the original bonnet from my Griffith, with the frame intact. Would be excellent to make a mould from. Any offers?

Hope this is allowed John?

**John Turner** · 24 Feb 2009, 08:55 (Ref:2402970)

I think, under the circs, we can allow it. Hope that someone takes this item; must be worth putting aside.

Flyingfox_01 · 24 Feb 2009, 20:52 (Ref:2403456)

I've got a brand new Bonnet and Body mould the correct size.

jellison · 3 Mar 2009, 16:00 (Ref:2408200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingfox_01

I've got a brand new Bonnet and Body mould the correct size.

Mike - Great pic's. PM'd you. Jelly.

jellison · 5 Mar 2009, 15:39 (Ref:2409649)

Seems the Garlic Munchers have succeeded in Hammering the FIA Griff racers into submission (i.e. making their cars a lot slower) so the Cobra's, E-Types and Ferrari's can win a lot easier! Oooh What a surprise.

They really don’t want the little plastic cars to ever win – they want them to just quietly disappear…………

From Moby: FIA made a ruling in Paris the week before last to the effect that Griffiths have to run with no modifications to the bonnet, (no vents etc, bar the two lower thin ones below the main opening) and are not allowed to run extended wheel arches at all. This will mean standard Grantura / Griffith rear archs.

+ they have said the max wheel size is 6” SIX INCHES (with over 400bhp and stoneage tyres)!!!

Some upside is they appear to be looking at the Cobras and E-Types too.

Means the huge list of rims / tyre widths that could be run in the original papers, can no longer be run (as they will simply not fit under a std Griff rear arch).
I think most fia Griffs up to now have been running on 8” rims (under the flared arches) and the correspondingly much wider tyres. With 6” and much narrower rubber (and effective track) they will be Murdered presumably, in potential cornering.
Presume this no vents in the bonnet will mean no 3x GTO type vents or the louves at the back of the bonnet or the raising and having Open bonnet bulge? Will Webbers even fit under the std small bulge (Not sure webbers were ever run on these things pre 66? - Maybe a backhanded way to stop Webbers and further have them detuned?). So no cool air to the carbs even if you can get the bonnet down on whatever carbs you are running! Plus the only venting of the hot under bonnet is going to be the two small side vents!!

Mind you all this makes my car (as it is at the moment) alot closer to fia!! i.e. my car has a totally original bonnet (so early it does not even have the 2 thin lower vents!) and std width rear! Ok I could mod it how I like with all the louves and holes etc in the bonnet and the wide arches – but seems a bit pointless now. I’m sure I can somehow squeeze some 7” rims with the right offset under a std rear arch (well I’ll bloody try!).
So all I’d have to do is build the 289 to Full race! I have the right block and heads. I have the right (new) discs and calipers from Cambridge MS and the fragile front uprights.
God they (the FIA) really don’t like JACK’s Budget Rockets...........
-------------------------------------------------------------

So much for all the hard work by many that had tried to or actually had shown that all these mods were run in period (fia don't obviously give a flying ....).

simon drabble · 5 Mar 2009, 15:47 (Ref:2409651)

out of interest when does that take effect? Will this mean that Jamie Boot wont fly passed me quite so quickly in future?

jellison · 5 Mar 2009, 15:58 (Ref:2409657)

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon drabble

out of interest when does that take effect? Will this mean that Jamie Boot wont fly passed me quite so quickly in future?

What do you Drive? Not 100% sure - but fairly sure, this will be FROM NOW or effectivley the start of the 09 racing season (i.e. get your hands in your wallets!!).

Loads of the cars are having the mods done now as I'm sure Flyingfox_01 will confirm

I had heard that many are having whole new bodies and bonnets done just because of this!!!!!!!??

Surely this is just cutting the wide arch off and puting on a molded section to the original shape in its place?) - Christ there is so much to building the body tub right. Surely the same for the bonnet (maybe slightly less so). But does begger the question how many cars are actually out there racing with an bonnet and tub that came out of the Griffith factory!?

I have a new chassis - but that is only due to the original turning to dust (have pics of the body on the old one and the new one taken at the same time), just make you think how much of some of these cars are original or at least modded fro racing FROM the original parts!!

simon drabble · 5 Mar 2009, 16:06 (Ref:2409663)

Jamie is a front runner in Guards Trophy which is the HSCC FIA series. I guess he coudl just move to the Road Sports one and then run on Yoki's as well...

jellison · 5 Mar 2009, 16:25 (Ref:2409672)

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Jamie is a front runner in Guards Trophy which is the HSCC FIA series. I guess he coudl just move to the Road Sports one and then run on Yoki's as well...

Off topic. But the HSCC have alway bugged me for allowing virtually NO mods to a car (no Webbers if the car was Originally Fuel injection) and steel panels.

Yep Jamie Boot could presumably do both HSCC race series - but his car has an engine that has so much power surely he would win every race.

+The FIA HSCC series has Proper Road type Sportscar like the Griff in with Proper Race track only 2 litre Chron type thing which to me seem wrong (they are so different and should not be in the same race).

ANYWAY we are gtting off my Favorite Subject here!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

BACK TO GRIFFS

terence · 5 Mar 2009, 17:38 (Ref:2409725)

About time the FIA did start taking a forward step! Webbers will not fit under the standard bonnet.This really is good news for the owners of the more standard cars,it was good enough for Gerry.Now it's down to driver ability,not shear grunt!! Should be some good results for those with the balls to drive em propper.

esper · 5 Mar 2009, 18:34 (Ref:2409758)

An it has to look like this.............
No this is 1991 when Julian Balme and Mick Walsh CLASSIC AND SPORTSCAR wrote a nice story on racing v8s - day of thunder v8 sportscar battle- . This car was already in this thread being Roger Connells car. In those days he did beat Des Cassidy and John Atkins in Cobras in this ..so it is possible? (then what happens to all these flying Cobras these days) so FIA scuts you got still an agenda full of work

Anyway nice car like Roger Connells ,,,,,wouldnt mind racing one like that, could still be fast then!

esper · 5 Mar 2009, 18:40 (Ref:2409768)

an if anyone starts complaining you cant see the ..rs. the arches are like my Grantura!

1800TISA · 5 Mar 2009, 21:33 (Ref:2409899)

Nice thread! Just for info, these are some pictures of the Griffith entered as "Intermeccanica-Ford Griffith 200" by Breyer/Kramer in the 1966 Zeltweg 500km World Sportscar Championship race in Austria. By unknown reason the car did not start the race. Nice wire wheels tough.

Picture source: www.motorsportarchiv.at

FISCracer · 5 Mar 2009, 22:46 (Ref:2409969)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jellison

Seems the Garlic Munchers have succeeded in Hammering the FIA Griff racers into submission (i.e. making their cars a lot slower) so the Cobra's, E-Types and Ferrari's can win a lot easier! Oooh What a surprise.

They really don’t want the little plastic cars to ever win – they want them to just quietly disappear…………

From Moby: FIA made a ruling in Paris the week before last to the effect that Griffiths have to run with no modifications to the bonnet, (no vents etc, bar the two lower thin ones below the main opening) and are not allowed to run extended wheel arches at all. This will mean standard Grantura / Griffith rear archs.

+ they have said the max wheel size is 6” SIX INCHES (with over 400bhp and stoneage tyres)!!!

Some upside is they appear to be looking at the Cobras and E-Types too.

Means the huge list of rims / tyre widths that could be run in the original papers, can no longer be run (as they will simply not fit under a std Griff rear arch).
I think most fia Griffs up to now have been running on 8” rims (under the flared arches) and the correspondingly much wider tyres. With 6” and much narrower rubber (and effective track) they will be Murdered presumably, in potential cornering.
Presume this no vents in the bonnet will mean no 3x GTO type vents or the louves at the back of the bonnet or the raising and having Open bonnet bulge? Will Webbers even fit under the std small bulge (Not sure webbers were ever run on these things pre 66? - Maybe a backhanded way to stop Webbers and further have them detuned?). So no cool air to the carbs even if you can get the bonnet down on whatever carbs you are running! Plus the only venting of the hot under bonnet is going to be the two small side vents!!

Mind you all this makes my car (as it is at the moment) alot closer to fia!! i.e. my car has a totally original bonnet (so early it does not even have the 2 thin lower vents!) and std width rear! Ok I could mod it how I like with all the louves and holes etc in the bonnet and the wide arches – but seems a bit pointless now. I’m sure I can somehow squeeze some 7” rims with the right offset under a std rear arch (well I’ll bloody try!).
So all I’d have to do is build the 289 to Full race! I have the right block and heads. I have the right (new) discs and calipers from Cambridge MS and the fragile front uprights.
God they (the FIA) really don’t like JACK’s Budget Rockets...........
-------------------------------------------------------------

So much for all the hard work by many that had tried to or actually had shown that all these mods were run in period (fia don't obviously give a flying ....).

Quite right too! As you can see Griffs didn't have louvres in the bonnet or extended wheel arches in period.

Below a young Mr Marshall at Brands supposedly in 66 and hence period G rather than period F

Let us just hope that the same rigour is applied to other marques and that it is enforced..........

BTW do these rules apply to French/German TVRs or only British ones?

terence · 6 Mar 2009, 07:50 (Ref:2410106)

Dont like the rear end styling though! Front springs must be a tad softer than those used these days.:laugh
[Stop being cynical Richard,they apply to ALL cars]

jellison · 6 Mar 2009, 09:02 (Ref:2410145)

Few things.

The FIA could not care about the Gerry pic's cos they are 66 or later. That car has the 3 GTO duct which they ahve now said no to. No hole in the bonnet for fresh air.

The slatted lourves at the back of the bonnet (not sure on these I am going to check all my individual car folders to see if on the road ones - are the on yours FISC?). My car is such and early one as to not even have the lower horizontal slats below the rad opening, or the rear lourves (think mine is just a Grantura bonnet as the first 3 cars were actually Granturas with all the mechanicals made to fit. Think they added more holes / vents lourves after mine (the 3rd of the first 3 cars).

Now check pic's of road cars (and yours Fisc) yep the back louved vents are there. I'll have to get these added and the front slats!

As for Webbers - yep I doubt they will fit, IF the engine is in the std place! You could lower it a tad and fit shorter ram pipes and you might get them in.

Things is regardless of what was availible from the factory (and I do not think Webbers were and option - a twin 4 choke holley set up was - see The Griff years for the factory options pictures). Cobra's can run webbers so why not any other 289 car! More favoritisum for the loved Marques!

I think a holley (if the right one can flow enough air - maybe not a 650cfm) for the engine. You have to remember the heads can only flow as much as there porting allows, if a carb can potentially flow more than the max the head has been worked to provide it will not actually do anything!

There was a special Holley made for a limited run of Shelby Mustangs in the mid to late 60's that is pretty trick and bloody hard to get hold of at 715cfm which I think is about right for a larger or std size but really tuned race engine.

The webbers are shown on the car in the fia homo! doc with no big bulge (std) so they can fit, but the ram pipes are v.short and the filtering looks odd and squashed.

As for the tyres. I kind of agree on the no big arches - BUT, I think they have come up with the 6" rim figure just by pulling it out of the air - i.e. give the plastic pigs 6"'s and that will slow them right down vs the Cobras that can run MUCH wider ones. Basically they are hammering the Griff with the same engine as a Cobra in the engine (induction) AND in the tyre width - just so they can't compete.

I think 7"'s will just about go under the arches. they should have gone for 7. But ha that is not keeping the plastic pigs DOWN.

jellison · 6 Mar 2009, 09:09 (Ref:2410147)

Oh forgot, on Rogers car (from the above pic's). His car is not a 289. It is a 302, and runs alloy heads. So although externally his could be fia compliant, then engine is not. Mind not that there is that much different, few 100 cc's and 4 bolt vs 2 bolt mains. The heads do save 20kg high on the engine though.

His car makes about 400bhp (I know this cos I race him and talk about this, cos I have one). His car has 6" rims (with 205/60/15 Yoko's same as I run) and can't get near my "Mildly" tuned TR6, murders it on the straights but over a lap no chance

Mind Roger is 70 odd! Top bloke. See my movie of the 6 vs Rogers car much earlierin the thread

**John Turner** · 6 Mar 2009, 11:33 (Ref:2410250)

I certainly agree that if they are slowing the Griffs down to get them closer to original spec performance, then they should be looking at some of the E-types and Cobras. Without addressing those as well, surely the FIA, rather than evening out the playing field (as they see it), have merely tilted it in the opposite direction. But, what do I know?!

I've been watching Roger Connell race his TVR more years than I care to remember, and it's great that he still brings it out at the age of 70.

Now ..... about those chassis numbers.

**Peter Mallett** · 6 Mar 2009, 12:19 (Ref:2410308)

Seems to me that you're getting the number unobtainable tone John. Make of that what you will but surely its in everyone's interest to have an archive of the chassis numbers and owners, which can be updated as cars move around.

**John Turner** · 6 Mar 2009, 12:22 (Ref:2410311)

Agree, Peter. Come on, guys!

jellison · 6 Mar 2009, 13:06 (Ref:2410344)

Quote:

Originally Posted by esper

an if anyone starts complaining you cant see the ..rs. the arches are like my Grantura!

The more I look at the back of Rogers car (even though mine is the older Grantura early 200 Rear), I am sure I will get 7 inches rims in there with no messing with the arches (they can at least run 225's). Roger is only on 205/60's with all that power!

Good view of the back of Rogers car! http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...90866912&hl=en

jellison · 6 Mar 2009, 13:21 (Ref:2410360)

Issue with chassis number is that they are closely guarded by the custodian of the Griff name in the US Mike Mooney.

I can dip feed a few bits in on cars I have pics and info from the last few years.

Here is a well know FIA car that has raced lot in Europe 400-5-002 - was for sale last year for £90k. No idea if it sold. Was owned then by Macel Roks.

Above have the big rear flares / fat rear rims and presumably on a Holley here before the Bonkers bonnet bod below to go Webbered!!!!

More later

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