IMSA DPi Discussion - Page 12

chernaudi · 29 Mar 2016, 20:59 (Ref:3628546)

2017 is a grandfather clause year in both IMSA and ACO sanctioned series. In either case, I'm betting that the newer cars will be given favorable BOP to encourage teams to run the newer cars, just like the ACO did with LMP1 cars in 2005 to get hasten teams switch over to new rules cars.

YZFrider · 29 Mar 2016, 23:38 (Ref:3628585)

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...ply-and-demand

The sobering reality.

Accident · 30 Mar 2016, 00:59 (Ref:3628591)

I like that it is mentioned that the Cadillac could keep using the V8. Would be a shame to lose that wonderful sound, particularly if the other entries are using small turbo engines as well.

carbsmith · 30 Mar 2016, 04:53 (Ref:3628609)

I was actually pretty amused by that, because when the whole "how will we fit turbos under the standard bodywork" fuss came up a few days ago my first thought was "I bet a small block Chevy will fit in there just fine though".

And so it came to be.

I'm sure it's also much cheaper and more reliable to make 600hp from an LSx than to push it out of the LF4.

Matt · 30 Mar 2016, 12:49 (Ref:3628690)

Keep the SBC sound please because it's phenomenal.

Accident · 30 Mar 2016, 13:14 (Ref:3628699)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbsmith

I'm sure it's also much cheaper and more reliable to make 600hp from an LSx than to push it out of the LF4.

I wouldn't be so sure of that part. If they were starting from scratch I'm sure you are right, but now that the turbo unit has already been developed for the ATS-V.R I wouldn't be surprised at all if it is capable of running reliably at similar power levels.

I've never been able to see any of them in person, but even from Lanky Turtle's videos and the stuff we catch on TV in the times that the commentators shut up, the Corvette DPs are some of the best sounding race cars out there, not just in IMSA competition. I don't want to lose some of the variety in the class. The more sounds we get the better, and if GM doesn't run a thundering V8 then no one else will sadly so we will have lost that sound.

Besides, the CTS-V still uses a V8, so it's not like it's un-Cadillac.

kvenom · 30 Mar 2016, 14:33 (Ref:3628715)

So the Pruett article suggest teams will have to bring a dpi instead of anew old p2 to be competitive next year. Meanwhile Oreca says that demand for dpi won't be high next season...

Jesus.

Coach Ep · 30 Mar 2016, 14:40 (Ref:3628716)

No, current grandfathered P2 coupes will not be competitive against new DPis in 2017. That's the current situation which might change substantially if only a handful of new DPis show up at Daytona next year.

But I bet IMSA is more than happy with 2-4 GM DPis vs 2-4 Mazda DPis as long as both (along with the GT manufacturers) are footing IMSA's bills.

Worst case scenario will see only 5 top class protos...

BullMan · 30 Mar 2016, 14:42 (Ref:3628717)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvenom

So the Pruett article suggest teams will have to bring a dpi instead of anew old p2 to be competitive next year. Meanwhile Oreca says that demand for dpi won't be high next season...

Jesus.

Oreca says that time is running out and that they think the manus won't be able to get everything together in time for Daytona.

Might we see some WEC-spec P2s with Gibson engines badged as Chevy/whatever at Daytona if they can't get everything together? At what point does IMSA delay the bodywork mandate to 2018 and allow manus to run the WEC-spec bodywork instead? I know that some modifications would have to be made for turbo units, but that seems like it would be much more doable in the timeframe given.

Of course, I'm still of the opinion that sometime in the summer IMSA will spring grandfathering the DPs in for 2017. Gotta believe that if that happened, then they WOULD be BoP'd to the new cars.

Maelochs · 30 Mar 2016, 15:38 (Ref:3628725)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullMan

I'm still of the opinion that sometime in the summer IMSA will spring grandfathering the DPs in for 2017. Gotta believe that if that happened, then they WOULD be BoP'd to the new cars.

Yuop. IMSA will wait until they are absolutely sure that every team which can buy a DPi has ... and then they will change the rules to make sure there are actually cars on the grid.

Which means another season at least of the BoP BS, where every race win means that the series picked a winner as much as the winning drivers and team did the best job.

If it tries hard, IMSA can carry on the proud American tradition of killing sports car series.

Gingers4Justice · 30 Mar 2016, 15:47 (Ref:3628729)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Mazda is firmly committed to winning at Le Mans in some prototype class, or at least taking a very serious shot. I have no idea what year they would plan to go over, but they will continue to run two cars here until then, I'd figure .... maybe until they can get some kind of WEC waiver for their two-liter. You know .... Audi-style, buy the regulations they need.

Indeed. When did they first state their intention to enter Le Mans again? From memory, it was 2012 or possibly even earlier. Mazda's racing commitments have felt like they're just sitting around, waiting for something to happen. If Nissan's approach to marketing in motorsports in recent years was a bucket of ice cold water poured over the head, then Mazda's approach has been something more akin to subliminal advertising.

Apart from the time they got scared that no one had heard of Skyactiv.

DeezPutz · 30 Mar 2016, 16:01 (Ref:3628733)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvenom

So the Pruett article suggest teams will have to bring a dpi instead of anew old p2 to be competitive next year. Meanwhile Oreca says that demand for dpi won't be high next season...

Jesus.

IMSA will be fine for next year. Pruett has posted the same article for months now. He just keeps changing the dates. Remember that time Nissan paid him errrrr gave him access to their LMP1 car so he could tell you it was the next best thing and would change racing? I do. His bias is showing again.

carbon_titanium · 30 Mar 2016, 16:12 (Ref:3628737)

hope that soon IMSA will realize that the simplest solution is the best:

no more custom bodywork, just "normal" lmp2 powered by no-spec engine like GM, HPD, mazda or whatelse

carbon_titanium · 30 Mar 2016, 16:15 (Ref:3628738)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Indeed. When did they first state their intention to enter Le Mans again? From memory, it was 2012 or possibly even earlier. Mazda's racing commitments have felt like they're just sitting around, waiting for something to happen. If Nissan's approach to marketing in motorsports in recent years was a bucket of ice cold water poured over the head, then Mazda's approach has been something more akin to subliminal advertising.

Apart from the time they got scared that no one had heard of Skyactiv.

off topic consideration. Never understood why mazda team is sticking since 2014 with that updated lola b12/80, that since its introdution has been the worst lmp2 chassis available!

HORNDAWG · 30 Mar 2016, 16:19 (Ref:3628744)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

hope that soon IMSA will realize that the simplest solution is the best:

no more custom bodywork, just "normal" lmp2 powered by no-spec engine like GM, HPD, mazda or whatelse

DPi is here to stay!

L.P.

BullMan · 30 Mar 2016, 16:22 (Ref:3628745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

off topic consideration. Never understood why mazda team is sticking since 2014 with that updated lola b12/80, that since its introdution has been the worst lmp2 chassis available!

It was the cheapest chassis they could use. An outdated LMP2 whose company had just gone into bankruptcy. We should see them with a new chassis next year.

HORNDAWG · 30 Mar 2016, 16:25 (Ref:3628748)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Yuop. IMSA will wait until they are absolutely sure that every team which can buy a DPi has ... and then they will change the rules to make sure there are actually cars on the grid.

Which means another season at least of the BoP BS, where every race win means that the series picked a winner as much as the winning drivers and team did the best job.

If it tries hard, IMSA can carry on the proud American tradition of killing sports car series.

There has been a carry over transitional (BoP) grandfathering from day 1. Including the 'good old days' when Audi, Acura and Porsche were fighting it out and EVERYBODY loved it! So why is it that doing it for the transition to DPi is so different?

L.P.

Maelochs · 30 Mar 2016, 16:54 (Ref:3628764)

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

hope that soon IMSA will realize that the simplest solution is the best: no more custom bodywork, just "normal" lmp2 powered by no-spec engine like GM, HPD, mazda or whatelse

this assumes all the different power plants fit under the engine cover, and all the necessary scoops and radiators are fed.

Mazda's downfall with the diesel (one of them I guess) was that it didn't fit well in the Lola engine bay and didn't get enough cooling (ran much hotter than the gas-fueled AER-Mazda motor) and cooked itself.

IMSA simply needs to BoP the P2s to be competitive, which it might have said it won't do ... who knows who to believe any more?

HORNDAWG · 30 Mar 2016, 16:55 (Ref:3628766)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullMan

It was the cheapest chassis they could use. An outdated LMP2 whose company had just gone into bankruptcy. We should see them with a new chassis next year.

They had already had a long relationship with the combination via Dyson, so it was not because it was the 'cheapest' chassis but rather one that they had experience with and was fully developed. Also after the Lola (race car) receivership issue, Lola/Multimatic/Haas was the only independent P2 constructor (active with a current existing P2) with facilities in N. America at the time, which was desirable for the much needed teething pains of installing the diesel (thank goodness that's done with).

L.P.

Matt · 30 Mar 2016, 17:13 (Ref:3628772)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

this assumes all the different power plants fit under the engine cover, and all the necessary scoops and radiators are fed.

Mazda's downfall with the diesel (one of them I guess) was that it didn't fit well in the Lola engine bay and didn't get enough cooling (ran much hotter than the gas-fueled AER-Mazda motor) and cooked itself.

IMSA simply needs to BoP the P2s to be competitive, which it might have said it won't do ... who knows who to believe any more?

If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't. I don't see the big deal either way.

Maelochs · 30 Mar 2016, 17:36 (Ref:3628780)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

If they do, they do. If they don't, they don't. I don't see the big deal either way.

I guess .... ??? Six cars in the top class beats ALMS I guess .... and it will give the PCs more room to run .

But if Mazda only builds two DPis and the mystery team only brings two Cadillacs, that is a four-car top class. Still beats ALMS ... but is a definite step backwards for IMSA.

How many teams would bother bringing a Gibson-powered P2 if they knew they would lose? How many teams will find other places to race?

I just don't think it would be wise for IMSA to do anything to hurt its top class ... and given the history of series management, I therefore almost expect them to.

HORNDAWG · 30 Mar 2016, 17:42 (Ref:3628784)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I guess .... ??? Six cars in the top class beats ALMS I guess .... and it will give the PCs more room to run .

But if Mazda only builds two DPis and the mystery team only brings two Cadillacs, that is a four-car top class. Still beats ALMS ... but is a definite step backwards for IMSA.

How many teams would bother bringing a Gibson-powered P2 if they knew they would lose? How many teams will find other places to race?

I just don't think it would be wise for IMSA to do anything to hurt its top class ... and given the history of series management, I therefore almost expect them to.

Why do you think a Gibson powered '17 P2 would be a loser? Those are going to be BoPed equal with the DPi.

L.P.

Deleted · 30 Mar 2016, 18:33 (Ref:3628802)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I guess .... ??? Six cars in the top class beats ALMS I guess .... and it will give the PCs more room to run .

But if Mazda only builds two DPis and the mystery team only brings two Cadillacs, that is a four-car top class. Still beats ALMS ... but is a definite step backwards for IMSA.

How do two performance balanced Riley-"Mazdas" going against two Dallara-"Cadillacs" beat even the lamest of ALMS LMP1 fields (let's say 1x Pickett, 2x Dyson and 1x Autocon or whatever)?

Deleted · 30 Mar 2016, 18:41 (Ref:3628805)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Why do you think a Gibson powered '17 P2 would be a loser? Those are going to be BoPed equal with the DPi.

L.P.

Because the second hand spec Zytek engine and all the barebody chassis won't have OEM politics powers and money like the Chevrolets and Mazdas and Hondas do.

Theory doesn't equal reality.

TF110 · 30 Mar 2016, 18:46 (Ref:3628806)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

How do two performance balanced Riley-"Mazdas" going against two Dallara-"Cadillacs" beat even the lamest of ALMS LMP1 fields (let's say 1x Pickett, 2x Dyson and 1x Autocon or whatever)?

Don't forget the occasional Rebellion against the Pickett Honda. Those were good battles. Then the Mazda too (when it was actually competitive). That 3-way battle was better than watching DP vs P2 imo.

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