Andretti F1 - 2025

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

how it used to be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8RHRl8GphY

and today i's not even close to 26 cars

I enjoyed the video. It put a smile on my face....

[Formulahistory]

Formula 1 should have 26 cars. It's a shame what happened to Andretti, a F1 world champion name!

[S griffin]

F1 has really made itself unpopular with this decision. Reality check is needed.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

F1 has really made itself unpopular with this decision. Reality check is needed.

99.9% (probably more) of those who watch F1 won't have any idea.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by peebee2

99.9% (probably more) of those who watch F1 won't have any idea.

What is that even supposed to mean? I think F1 fans are a lot more clued in than you think

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

What is that even supposed to mean? I think F1 fans are a lot more clued in than you think

It means 99.9%, probably more, watching F1 won't have any idea of their rejection. It certainly hasn't made F1 suddenly "unpopular" (in your words). And it will hardly affect the racing.

In any case, when somebody is warned that if they apply for something on a certain basis you will be rejected, but then they go on and apply on that basis anyway, they really shouldn't act too surprised when they are rejected.

At the end of the day teams are currently valued at circa $1b, so they really aren't about to let someone in for a $200m fee and a circa $300m investment. Sure some keen-type fans will be unhappy, but they are thinking as fans, and with little or no business sense coming into their thoughts.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by peebee2

It means 99.9%, probably more, watching F1 won't have any idea of their rejection. And it will hardly affect the racing.

In any case, when somebody is warned that if they apply for something on a certain basis you will be rejected, but then they go on and apply on that basis anyway, they really shouldn't act too surprised when they are rejected.

At the end of the day teams are currently valued at circa $1b, so they really aren't about to let someone in for a $200m fee and a circa $300m investment.

I’m sure a LOT more than 0.1% of the fan base are aware of this.
There was no other way for them to apply.If you read the long feature article in this years Autocourse there is no doubt the fix was in from Day 1.
The process is fundamentally flawed.I don’t know at what point the decision passed from the FIA making the decision and then Bernie had to sort out the financials to the inmates running the asylum but that is where it became unfair.
As I’ve said repeatedly the wishes of the existing teams should not be a major factor in this decision.They have done nothing themselves to cause this Golden Age of F1.They have just been lucky enough to be holding a winning lottery ticket.It is on the back of Netflix and the once in several generations 2021 Championship battle.If you want to bring the people who caused this growth into the decision get Netflix to decide if they want Andretti in.

[Richard C]

I have to absolutely laugh when someone tosses out numbers like 99.9% on anything with conviction. It is just such a "pull out of thin air" number. Why not say 110%

It's just his attempt to wind people up as usual. What is so obviously wrong with the statement is that even if casual fans ignore ALL F1 news, the topic will be talked about at some point during broadcasts of at least US based races if not others as well. So a large and significant number of fans will at least know about it.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I have to absolutely laugh when someone tosses out numbers like 99.9% on anything with conviction. It is just such a "pull out of thin air" number. Why not say 110%

It's just his attempt to wind people up as usual. What is so obviously wrong with the statement is that even if casual fans ignore ALL F1 news, the topic will be talked about at some point during broadcasts of at least US based races if not others as well. So a large and significant number of fans will at least know about it.

Richard

When more than 0.1% of UK F1 viewers have interacted with the comments section of the BBC article about the rejection, you know the figure of 99.9% is absolute fiction.

[peebee2]

OK, maybe 99.9% is an exaggeration. Mind you that BBC claim is "absolute fiction" too.

But a certainty that the vast majority of F1 viewers worldwide will have no knowledge or interest.

It's like writing pages and pages of overthought nonsense that has literally zero bearing on reality. You can spend hours writing it but it doesn't mean it has any bearing on the reality of what is actually a very simple situation, as everyone in the sport knows - including the applicant.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

True, but their lack of any in-depth knowledge of F1 doesn't make it right.

Much the same as any sport, or indeed any topic.

Every weekend millions of people, if not billions, complain about refereeing decisions when it's obvious they are actually in the dark about the actual laws of the game.

Doesn't stop them enjoying it, or the endless media analysis on every platform going, nor the billions and billions turned over.

People come up with all sorts of theories but, in my experience, the simple and obvious reason is usually pretty much the truth. Just like the case here.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

In any case, when somebody is warned that if they apply for something on a certain basis you will be rejected, but then they go on and apply on that basis anyway, they really shouldn't act too surprised when they are rejected.

Is that what Andretti did?

Originally Posted by peebee2

At the end of the day teams are currently valued at circa $1b, so they really aren't about to let someone in for a $200m fee and a circa $300m investment. Sure some keen-type fans will be unhappy, but they are thinking as fans, and with little or no business sense coming into their thoughts.

I thought the entry fee that is payable by any and all new entrants, is set at $200m?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I thought the entry fee that is payable by any and all new entrants, is set at $200m?

That's the current, and right now very dated, (anti-)dilution fee.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

That's the current, and right now very dated, (anti-)dilution fee.

If it is very dated then it needs to be updated.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I enjoyed the video. It put a smile on my face....

this is even better

1989 Prequalify at Canada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5qJx0MVja8


13 drivers were in it, that's 65% of the current entire grid !! think about that !!

and look at that access people had to the cars, not like the sterile **** of today why the heck F1 stil has viewers is beyond me

[Greem]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and look at that access people had to the cars, not like the sterile **** of today why the heck F1 stil has viewers is beyond me

If that level of access existed today the cars would be pulled to pieces.

[chillibowl]

I would imagine that a significant number of fans follow F1 on social media like twitter, Reddit, insta, FB, some other new aggregator and/or sports feeds delivering related news via their mobile apps and phones.

If the number is only 0.1% or anything even remotely close to that I would be massively surprised….everyone has a phone right?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

I would imagine that a significant number of fans follow F1 on social media like twitter, Reddit, insta, FB, some other new aggregator and/or sports feeds delivering related news via their mobile apps and phones.

If the number is only 0.1% or anything even remotely close to that I would be massively surprised….everyone has a phone right?

Perhaps but seeing/reading headlines of the top teams isn't, I think, going to be the same as clear interest in the detail of the whole championships.

You just have to look at this forum. Some knowledgeable people, but a massive amount or fantasy/rubbish posted by people who would claim, and genuinely are, serious F1/motorsport fans.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

I would imagine that a significant number of fans follow F1 on social media like twitter, Reddit, insta, FB, some other new aggregator and/or sports feeds delivering related news via their mobile apps and phones.

If the number is only 0.1% or anything even remotely close to that I would be massively surprised….everyone has a phone right?

Yes - the >0.1% was in response to a claim that '99.9%, probably more, watching F1 won't have any idea of their rejection'.
The comments section of a single BBC article about the rejection received more interactions (comments and feedbacks) than 0.1% of people who watch F1 in the UK. There will be many more people who have read the article and not interacted with the comments section, and even more who get their F1 information from elsewhere - as you say.

To claim that more than 99.9% of F1 watchers will not now about Andretti's bid being rejected is impertinent to both a significant portion of F1 watchers and contributors to this forum.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Yes - the >0.1% was in response to a claim that '99.9%, probably more, watching F1 won't have any idea of their rejection'.
The comments section of a single BBC article about the rejection received more interactions (comments and feedbacks) than 0.1% of people who watch F1 in the UK. There will be many more people who have read the article and not interacted with the comments section, and even more who get their F1 information from elsewhere - as you say.

Yadda, yadda. Of course, every comment and feedback on your BBC article was from a separate individual...

It's like the nonsense of believing press releases or, indeed, not believing anything which wasn't in a press release. I won't say "99.9%" but the vast majority of F1 news and gossip never makes any official press release appearance.

[Adam43]

Got it, you originally misspoke. Thanks for clarifying. You didn’t mean 99.9%, nor did you mean won’t have any idea. It was more most won’t have read in detail. Thanks for clarifying.

Let’s move on from the semantics here. Someone just didn’t explain themselves very well.

[veeten]

Then again, the whole thing about trying to use their present market value as an excuse to do these actions against possible new entries just shows the amount of ignorance and arrogance on their part. For what is the most destructive of financial actions?...

Market Correction. And the way many financial markets are, and have been, acting, we are due.

[chillibowl]

If we were talking about a StefanGP bid or some such then for sure I could be inclined to agree with peebee’s assessment that this is a very low interest story but the Andretti name does carry with it much more attention. Obviously N.America isn’t the world but stories of this rejection did cross over onto the front page of main stream sports sites and sports highlight shows over here.

And for that to happen someone in programming must think there is value in prioritizing it. Not Super Bowl level interest of course but it was the most prominent Motorsport related story of that day with interest both inside and outside of F1 circles.

Maybe just maybe, FOM and those in the know are underestimating just what the fans find of interest? Kind of feel like this is exactly at the heart of this issue.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Maybe just maybe, FOM and those in the know are underestimating just what the fans find of interest? Kind of feel like this is exactly at the heart of this issue.

Cost/value are the things at the heart of this issue.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If it is very dated then it needs to be updated.

Plus it's a fixed value over a relatively long duration (Concorde Agreement duration). In hindsight, no doubt the teams and FOM believe they didn't think that through fully. I suspect the next iteration of that agreement will used a more complex computation that is likely to have a high minimum and an indexable value that allows it to grow even higher if team values grow. To effectively price it out of just about anyone's reach, but if someone has deep enough pockets the teams would get some type of massive windfall.

Given that some of the reasons FOM has used to exclude Andretti directly apply to a number of existing teams in the championship, I wonder if there might be a push for some type of relegation process in which if a team sits at the bottom of the championship year after year that they may be forced to either surrender or sell their entry. Then again, if you are currently bouncing around at the bottom of the championship, would you even sign up for that? And if FOM wants to play hardball, what if they don't even try to sign (or do try to sign, but force onerous conditions upon) a team like Haas into a future Concorde agreement even if they are in the series today? Could they do that? I assume they could given there has been risks of teams (i.e. Ferrari) not signing unless concessions were made to get them to sign, so I can image the reverse can also be true.

But I think the initial point is valid which was... the teams agreed to an entry fee but are not willing to stand by their agreement if someone met the conditions. So they are creating other roadblocks. I guess another perspective is that the Concorde agreement was either purposefully (or accidently) written with enough vagueness that an excuse for exclusion can always be found.

But we are beating a dead horse on this entire thing until something changes. Such as FOM changes their mind (99.9% sure that is not going to happen ) or some type of legal challenge is put forth.

Richard