[Team] Alpine: The cars are Racing Points

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Saw it on Google news this morning. Didn't realise it was old news. Hey hey

It's more of new old news that various media outlets have suddenly twigged on to!

[chillibowl]

i dont recall them previously announcing the names of the other athletes when they announced the sale to the ryan reynolds group?

given what is happening in the NFL these days, if an F1 team had announced that tyalor swift's boyfriend as an investor a few months back, then swifter nation (or whatever her fan group is called) would have already descended on F1 every bit as much as they seem to be latching on to the NFL.

half curious/half terrified to see if travis kelce and swift can bring that kind of heat to F1...right in time for Vegas no less?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i dont recall them previously announcing the names of the other athletes when they announced the sale to the ryan reynolds group?

given what is happening in the NFL these days, if an F1 team had announced that tyalor swift's boyfriend as an investor a few months back, then swifter nation (or whatever her fan group is called) would have already descended on F1 every bit as much as they seem to be latching on to the NFL.

half curious/half terrified to see if travis kelce and swift can bring that kind of heat to F1...right in time for Vegas no less?

What you write makes me wonder whether the recent media interest in the link between him and her may have been behind the sudden media interest in Alpine, and all done to boost interest/ticket sales in Vegas.

[chillibowl]

right!

certainly the actual performance of Alpine alone is not enough to encourage anyone to buy f1 tickets.

i may have mentioned this in the Andretti thread, but these days the F1 stakeholders no doubt now see attachment to celebrity/pop culture as more valuable/value add to the f1 brand than the introduction of a new team (with a historic racing surname) and an american manu badge.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

Just seen a news report that Antony Joshua and Rory McIlroy and others investing in Alpine F1. Whether a good investment, only time will tell.

Well they just interviewed Joshua on the COTA grid and it was a car crash. He didn't know how to pronounce Alpine. When asked why he's doing it all he could really say is he's "raising awareness about the Alpine team" and "doing it all for the fans".

I look forward to him losing interest in the thing he can't pronounce so we don't need to hear from him again.

[Mike Harte]

Unfortunately, although when I saw him on the TV a few years ago and he seemed to be a jolly nice guy, like a number of boxers, especially heavy-weights, they are not the sharpest tools in the box. Unlike our Henry and Clay/Ali.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Well they just interviewed Joshua on the COTA grid and it was a car crash. He didn't know how to pronounce Alpine. When asked why he's doing it all he could really say is he's "raising awareness about the Alpine team" and "doing it all for the fans".

I look forward to him losing interest in the thing he can't pronounce so we don't need to hear from him again.

To be fair he did acknowledge there is a correct pronounciation though?

What I didn't fully realise is how tall AJ is!!!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chunterer

To be fair he did acknowledge there is a correct pronounciation though?

What I didn't fully realise is how tall AJ is!!!

I'm not sure it was as much a clarification as a telling everyone else how to say it, like he's just learnt a new word and thinks the rest of us don't know it. Which does fit with his idea of "raising awareness" of the team.

Hate these sporting crossovers.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm not sure it was as much a clarification as a telling everyone else how to say it, like he's just learnt a new word and thinks the rest of us don't know it. Which does fit with his idea of "raising awareness" of the team.

Hate these sporting crossovers.

Lol!! Yeah it could've been!!

[Richard C]

Not sure if this has been talked about much, but technical director and head of aero recently resigned. Which is just another set of resignations in a long line of resignations.

https://racingnews365.com/exclusive-...y-resignations

So imagine that if a craptastic team like Alpine can set their valuation so high by a 24% share sale of $200M how much a well run team might be worth!

https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/al...tors/10558868/

I am thinking that Otro Capital (group of movie and sports stars) were royally ripped off when they bought into Alpine.

Richard

[chillibowl]

given the closed franchise model of F1, i imagine the Alpine team has still gone up in value? perhaps not as much of a return had they just invested their 250m into the markets but if its a long term holding they will realize their gains.

no fear from new competition, no fear from poor performances, fairer distribution of prize monies, and massively reduced budgets with a global audience...

i wonder how much an F1 team valuation is actually affected by on track performance (or lack of) anymore?

anyways, yeah Alpine is really trash lol!

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

given the closed franchise model of F1, i imagine the Alpine team has still gone up in value? perhaps not as much of a return had they just invested their 250m into the markets but if its a long term holding they will realize their gains.

no fear from new competition, no fear from poor performances, fairer distribution of prize monies, and massively reduced budgets with a global audience...

i wonder how much an F1 team valuation is actually affected by on track performance (or lack of) anymore?

anyways, yeah Alpine is really trash lol!

I'm not really disagreeing with you but the franchise model is a Defacto franchise model. There are no real franchises.

The second comment is true, if the 'closed shop' syndrome persists. No real competition from outside, poor car, so what, we can still shake the pockets of sponsors and return a neat profit....

But that scenario is not F1, so what happens if the FIA takes umbridge and creates a new series, or the public value and profile disappear, Liberty sells it off to someone else and the series crashes....

How much is the value affected by on track performance? Not much if the hype and keep exploding in peoples faces. If Alpine was really worth 800 million then what is Aston Martin or Williams worth?
If an $800 million starts the following season trailing Haas then that can happen to anyone.

A team's real value under this system is in the quality of its technical team.
If you have a Newey or a Stella (the man, not the beer), you're probably OK but you need to have them nailed down on a contract basis because the whole team image and performance swivels around the quality of its aero package.
Under the current rules the aero package can make or lose you 2-3 seconds a lap. So how well you execute the aero detail will make or break your season.

This is also why being a manufacturer, or a constructor, is so much of a contrived nonsense. They could all have exactly the same tub, buy each other's engine, rear suspension, gearbox and drive train as they can now do, but winning or being on the tail is aero dependent.

It is why I'm in favor of the old 70's and 80s way of doing things.
Allow chassis to be sold, engines etc. Allow independent privateers, single car teams, (like Rob Walker, early Frank Williams/Piers Courage for example). This would add character and sparkle and interest to the contest.

And why I see no problem with VCARB and RBR having the same owners. The result in the desert at Bahrain demonstrated clearly why the fears some people had of RBR and VCARB filling the top four positions was a nonsense.

Under the current rules its highly unlikely. But if Ricciardo and Yuki had been in RB20's, or in straight copies of last year's RB19's, would it have been more interesting? For me, that answer is yes.
Simply because I want competition and real racing.
And that is what is missing.
Two RB20's, then a Ferrari, a Mercedes, another Ferrari, a McLaren, another Mercedes, another McLaren and two Aston Martins.
If the other teams had access to the same chassis as the top five teams, and an engine of their choice, would the race have been more interesting.
My conclusion is yes.
And if there had been 12 teams not ten, that would be even better.

If cost is such a real consideration, why make them all produce a tub of their own design? Why not have a standard design with all the safety and standardization of a safety cell built in. You would save the teams hundreds of thousands of dollars and eliminate all the wasteful crash testing every year. The system is built in a way that costs teams hundreds of thousands of dollars. For what?
Nothing that makes a real difference.

We used to have a dozen small cottage industries making chassis for the junior formulae thirty plus years ago.
What do we have in junior formula now?
Complete uniformity.

As for Renault/Alpines future?
Sell Enstone to Andretti. Keep producing engines even if you get GM money to help you and the Andretti ones are badged GM.
Have Renault/Alpine buy Andretti chassis or copies, or copies of someone else's, and support a team using their own engines.

All of this would keep Renault involved, be just as successful as they presently are with far less cost, and give us an extra team.
Despite what the FOM review said, that WOULD add interest to the sport.

[GTRMagic]

Meantime.. is there anyone left in the building over there?
Might be a cheaper buy for Andretti Global now..
With the 2023 HAAS-like 2024 performance..

Who said something along the lines of ‘all the gear and no idea’?

[Akrapovic]

Maybe they should take more paint off.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I'm not really disagreeing with you but the franchise model is a Defacto franchise model. There are no real franchises.

The second comment is true, if the 'closed shop' syndrome persists. No real competition from outside, poor car, so what, we can still shake the pockets of sponsors and return a neat profit....

indeed, poor word choice on my part...should have said 'closed shop' as opposed to 'closed franchise'.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Meantime.. is there anyone left in the building over there?
Might be a cheaper buy for Andretti Global now..
With the 2023 HAAS-like 2024 performance..

Who said something along the lines of ‘all the gear and no idea’?

Jaguar and Toyota all over again. Suits who have no idea

[S griffin]

Jaguar actually had some good moments, but Toyota should have done more. Anyway, I'm sure Alpine won't fall into the same trap. Although this year might be best described as character building the way it's started

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Jaguar actually had some good moments, but Toyota should have done more. Anyway, I'm sure Alpine won't fall into the same trap. Although this year might be best described as character building the way it's started

Jaguar were ok on some Saturdays when Mr Webber was in one of the cars.
Mr Courtney might think they had some work to do in preparation having crashed at a zillion miles per hour when something broke on the car..

Mr Prost is still banging about.. maybe he can help

[Tourer]

Bob Bell bails (although his daughter remains). The Enstone team really is losing an array of good people, & I do wonder what happened to the two techo bods who have just departed - did they make a mess of the new car or were they restricted / not given the structure needed & are handy scapegoats?

Best solution from Alpine has come up with is to copy the structure that McLaren has - wonder if the management at Alpine understands how/why it works at McLaren?

Seems to be a source of non-stop doubt from the outside - wonder what it's like inside?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Bob Bell bails (although his daughter remains).

love that alliteration!

didnt realize that he was not directly involved with the Alpine F1 team anymore which makes me wonder why he wasnt being used in that capacity? surely his experience would have been of tremendous value.

moreso now that hes off to AM as a senior technical director for their F1 team.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Jaguar were ok on some Saturdays when Mr Webber was in one of the cars.
Mr Courtney might think they had some work to do in preparation having crashed at a zillion miles per hour when something broke on the car..

Mr Prost is still banging about.. maybe he can help

SOMETHING?!!! The rear WING !!!! At Monza!!!!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Who said something along the lines of ‘all the gear and no idea’?

They don't have the gear. Their car-in-the-loop simulator was one they bought second hand from another team. A new simulator is ordered for 2025.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

They don't have the gear. Their car-in-the-loop simulator was one they bought second hand from another team. A new simulator is ordered for 2025.

The current simulator has had a decent amount of investment though. The factory is an issue.

We had a simulator expert on our latest podcast talking about it (at quite a high level, given the NDAs involved) and it sounded like the simulator there wasn't the limiting factor anymore. The fact the factory hasn't had significant investment compared to other facilities is a large issue.

[Sodemo]

£25, they can buy rFactor 2, job done!

[GTRMagic]

It’s probably not correct to suggest Alpine has worse facilities than Williams though.