ALMS 2012 Discussion

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I'm not sure if I buy that, however grid numbers should improve considering that next year it'll be the one and only place where you can be on the overall podium with petrol engine. Plus if those WEC testing limitations come into place.

We've been through that before, with changing rules in Europe, that were grandfathered in over several years in North America... it didn't make any difference then.

The other thing is while there is often lots of talk at this time of year, it most often is dependent on obtaining funding. Hopefully something positive occurs, but let's wait and see who these teams are.

Also keep in mind that Friday should be interesting with the series State of the Onion address, and both Dyson and Cytosport are on record questioning future involvement, if they cannot compete for wins at the premier events.

[rabbit_racer]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

johndagys John Dagys
#ALMS LMP1 could end up with a higher car count than #WEC LMP1 next year considering the rumors I've been hearing.
50 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

» johndagys John Dagys
Wow, just heard some possible encouraging news regarding #ALMS LMP1 in 2012. Hope to have story later in week.

I hope that is true.. I was hearing some interesting, sadly unrepeatable yet stuff over the weekend that gave my dreary outlook on ALMS a bit of a boost.

See if anything comes up it as always.

[Mal]

The only foundation could be if there is a chance of American run Audi's again, plus maybe Aston Martin.

What about the thought of a Nissan or Toyota supported customer P1?

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by Mal

Dagys has just tweeted that if some of the rumours he has heard are true then ALMS could have more P1's than WEC next year

So are Audi and Peugeot dropping support for WEC then? What it means is that at the Chinese race(s?) Oak will be the only P1.

[R4z3rw33n]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

This is picking at straws and off the mark, but does anyone believe the money he is getting to put Microsoft logos on his car are paying for much of any of his racing activities?

Chris

This is something I've pondered for a while. Historically, M$ have shown little interest in motorsport sponsorship, exempting the cyclical promotions for gaming related product launches (e.g. console/game - see: Xbox/Forza). Which are usually deals with a series itself, rather than competitors.

It seems odd that sponsorship would be forthcoming for a gentleman-oriented squad, and one that can't seem to decide which region/s it competes in.

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

We've been through that before, with changing rules in Europe, that were grandfathered in over several years in North America... it didn't make any difference then.

The other thing is while there is often lots of talk at this time of year, it most often is dependent on obtaining funding. Hopefully something positive occurs, but let's wait and see who these teams are.

Also keep in mind that Friday should be interesting with the series State of the Onion address, and both Dyson and Cytosport are on record questioning future involvement, if they cannot compete for wins at the premier events.

Agreed. Especially after last year's off-season speculation.
I can vaguely remember suggestions of P2 grid counts between 5-8 entries. The reality was only slightly different once the dust had settled.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Mal

The only foundation could be if there is a chance of American run Audi's again, plus maybe Aston Martin.

What about the thought of a Nissan or Toyota supported customer P1?

Nissan North America will not spend a dime..

[The Badger]

Rumour is that OAK are building up to 6 custemer chassis for 2012 ..... surly they all wont end up in the LMS or WEC , also considering existing OAK chassis .

Possibily some for the ALMS ?

Could Mazda have turned their attention towards P1 ?

Pescarolo new chassis planned ?

Teams deserrting Grand-Am ?

I can think of loads of possibilities .....

Customer Audi's , Champion Racing return .

Its killin me , this waitin !!!

[Matt]

Just bring back IMSA GT and everything will be fine.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Nissan North America will not spend a dime..

In this championship, at least.

Chris

[rabbit_racer]

My money is going on the ALMS letting the older cars continue to run in conjunction w/some sort of agreement for the WEC rounds here in the States where they get restrictor breaks to stay even w/the newer gen cars. They would have to work out some sort of balance of performance if teams chose to run say a new HPD chassis that is built to the new specs w/smaller motors.

This whole downsizing/changing of the regs has just been "brilliant." Ugh...

I'm still hoping for the best that there's more to the tweet and something more firm in the pipeline for the series.

[Fogelhund]

Or perhaps a number of teams are bailing on the WEC, leaving the ALMS with more entries...

[TF110]

Maybe dyson has 2 more cars? Aston Martin might run full time? Rebellion? HPD customer cars? This is all possible.

[Fogelhund]

I think we need a LeMans 101, How to rate a future LMP entrant rumour/announcement for beginners. If any of the following apply to the potential entrant, you must discount their likely future participation to some degree, certainly their long-term participation.

1. The ownership is currently under investigation by the State, Federal Government, or the IRS.

2. The owner is going to build their own car.

3. Anybody representing the potential entrant is wearing a Hawaiian shirt.

4. The entrant is 90% there, they just need raise the funding.

5. You look for the owners business, and can't find an office for them, a website, or any real information anywhere.

6. Anybody who talks about new laws of physics, technical terms such as adiabatic and stoichiometric or reactive kinematics.

7. Phone calls regarding attempts to purchase chassis's and/or engines are made from a Soup Kitchen.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

johndagys John Dagys
#ALMS LMP1 could end up with a higher car count than #WEC LMP1 next year considering the rumors I've been hearing.
50 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

» johndagys John Dagys
Wow, just heard some possible encouraging news regarding #ALMS LMP1 in 2012. Hope to have story later in week.

This sounds like its more good for the ALMS and not about the WEC losing entries. But going into early 2011 Dagys also predicted Five to Six LMP1 cars for the full season in 2011.

I assume he thought:
2 Dyson
1 Muscle Milk
1 Highcroft
1 Autocon
1 Intersport

Perhaps Dagys is Thinking about the best case for 2012 ALMS LMP1: ie Autocon, Intersport, Signature, Audi returns, AMR, 3rd Dyson car and the worst for 2012 WEC: ie OAK and Rebellion with 1 car, forgetting about Pescarolo ect, no ORECA

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I think we need a LeMans 101, How to rate a future LMP entrant rumour/announcement for beginners. If any of the following apply to the potential entrant, you must discount their likely future participation to some degree, certainly their long-term participation.

1. The ownership is currently under investigation by the State, Federal Government, or the IRS.

2. The owner is going to build their own car.

3. Anybody representing the potential entrant is wearing a Hawaiian shirt.

4. The entrant is 90% there, they just need raise the funding.

5. You look for the owners business, and can't find an office for them, a website, or any real information anywhere.

6. Anybody who talks about new laws of physics, technical terms such as adiabatic and stoichiometric or reactive kinematics.

7. Phone calls regarding attempts to purchase chassis's and/or engines are made from a Soup Kitchen.

Yep, people like Henri Pescarolo, Rob Dyson, Greg Pickett and Bart Hayden are a dying breed. Seems its either a manufacturer (Porsche, soon Nissan) or somebody like Tucker, or even worse (Signature, Al Solaroli, Detroit Soup Kitchen) with new LMP programs these days, although this seem to be more of an ALMS issue than LMP issue.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Nick6

So are Audi and Peugeot dropping support for WEC then? What it means is that at the Chinese race(s?) Oak will be the only P1.

Nope, Strakka, Pescarolo and possibly Rebellion as well.

[JAG]

Much is still up in the air, not least ORECA/Nissan, Rebellion (don't they have three cars?), the destination of the new build Lola-Toyota's, how many HPD P1's will find new owners, Zytek hybrid and new P2, Cosworth, United Autosports, Johansons hopes to run an ALMS team, the Brundles, finding homes for six Oak P2's, Hope Polevision, AMR and what would/could be four AMR-One customers.............

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

AMR-One customers.............

[AGD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Maybe dyson has 2 more cars? Aston Martin might run full time? Rebellion? HPD customer cars? This is all possible.

Those would probably be the ALMS rumors. Dyson with up to 3 cars perhaps (2 is more likely), Cytosport with an HPD or maybe some sort of Cosworth, maybe the old Autocon Lola, perhaps 1 or more Rebellion cars, and who knows about an Aston. There is also that rumor about Stefan, but I don't know about that.

Can those teams produce more than what the WEC can pump out? I doubt it unless someone new is in the mix. Having said that, don't expect miracles from the WEC in terms of car count in any of their classes.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The only AMR One "customer" that we may see race in the ALMS next year will be Highcroft with their Delta Thing AMR One tub.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Matt

Just bring back IMSA GT and everything will be fine.

As much as I dig protos, this does seem like a good idea, allowing not only the bought cars like Porsches, but also allowing enthusiasts who want to weld/machine/layup/paper mache an entry in a shed or spare garage to field an entry too.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by skycafe

As much as I dig protos, this does seem like a good idea, allowing not only the bought cars like Porsches, but also allowing enthusiasts who want to weld/machine/layup/paper mache an entry in a shed or spare garage to field an entry too.

I'd hope someone brought in something completely ridiculous like a Chevrolet Malibu or something with the 2,4l turbocharged to the hilt, much like Oldsmobile had the Cutlasses back in the early 90's.

Who wouldn't enjoy watching stuff like that?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Hence would/could, that's four teams who were expecting to see customer P1's rolling out the door from the start of 2012, they'll be looking elsewhere and only Jota is publically known.

As I've said before I've no doubt there are going to be names new to the sport or top class who are attracted by the WEC, as an example a single seater squad like ART GP.

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h/u...0%A2_2408.html

[Purist]

As much as I might like the theory of that, I'll have to pass on it in practice.

Entries NEED to meet minimum crash-test standards, and you can't really crash-test, and then race, a one-off you built in your shop. You also need to make sure any entry can meet some reasonable minimum speed, so it's not a ridiculous hazard to the other competitors.

Also, mid '80s GTO/GTU cars looked too similar to Trans-Am and/or NASCAR cars of that period. I do NOT want any ALMS GTs to look like NASCAR, or CTSCC econoboxes. I just find vehicles with those more significant vertical proportions to look ungainly, and often downright ugly, and not the least bit suited to being on any racetrack.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Purist

As much as I might like the theory of that, I'll have to pass on it in practice.

Entries NEED to meet minimum crash-test standards, and you can't really crash-test, and then race, a one-off you built in your shop. You also need to make sure any entry can meet some reasonable minimum speed, so it's not a ridiculous hazard to the other competitors.

Also, mid '80s GTO/GTU cars looked too similar to Trans-Am and/or NASCAR cars of that period. I do NOT want any ALMS GTs to look like NASCAR, or CTSCC econoboxes. I just find vehicles with those more significant vertical proportions to look ungainly, and often downright ugly, and not the least bit suited to being on any racetrack.

If built to accepted standards, I don't really know that there would be any issue. The GTO/GTU cars were lower, had pronounced flares and aero, which was very unlike the Nascar stuff.