The 'Great' WEC Grid Girl Debate

[CTD]

I start to have a feeling that the two parties in this discussion is missing each others points.
The part who "support" the ending of ACO/FIA funded Grid Girls, who thinks that Grid Girls displays a negative image of the sport. Not focusing on the girls themselves as much of the signal value they give out.
The part who is "against", who focuses more on the rights of the girls and the possible political influences on the decision, to end the ACO/FIA funded Grid Girls.

Two different points, each with good reason. However, I have trouble believing that WEC will lose viewers because of the missing Grid Girls. If WEC does lose viewers because of this, you could argue that these viewers is not worth having.
Losing the Grid Girls, allows the WEC to match its current image of being the more "intelligent" series, with cutting edge technology and complex racing. (Race strategies)

[Maelochs]

I honestly doubt the grid girls lost or gained WEC one fan, and I am equally doubt their absence will bring or drive away one fan.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Astroturfing. One woman put off by it is not a groundswell movement of anti grid girls. Nor are a few young lads scared to death of boobs. And knowing more women in the motorsport industry than just about anyone here, almost no women in the business give a damn about women in lycra as grid girls.

The reason why motorsport around the world is increasingly ending up with empty stands and poor tv ratings is because a few loud people and political correctness have driven the sport to lose the plot. For most of it's existence people got involved in motorsport because it was fun, it was a competition and an escape from our daily lives. We were not spending our money and time to go to race weekends to deal with people with wacko political agendas like sexism or global warming/global cooling/climate change/climate disruption or whatever it is called today.

So yes continue to strive to snuff out anything fun, anything competitive or anything entertaining and see how many people you end up with. It's bad now and it's on the path to getting worse if this keeps up.

Plus 1, great work Mountainstar!

The "fun police" just ruin everything!

P.S. I see the grid girl thread seems to have disappeared from The "Australasian Touring Car" thread! Politically correct?

[FLGTFAN]

Let's say that the official grid girls are done. What about the rest of the sponsor/team promotions that happen on a race weekend? Are those under WEC management too?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by FLGTFAN

Let's say that the official grid girls are done. What about the rest of the sponsor/team promotions that happen on a race weekend? Are those under WEC management too?

Very likely not. Somehow this whole thread has gotten off course as it is now covering all kinds of promo girls at the race track while the decision seems to be clearly only about the grid girls on the actual starting grid just before the race.

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I honestly doubt the grid girls lost or gained WEC one fan, and I am equally doubt their absence will bring or drive away one fan.

I don't think grid girls them selfs would lose or gain fans either but the politics surrounding it possibly could. Especially when thinking about certain South American and East Asian countries. Had the WEC just said "we wont be hiring them, its up to the promoters, tracks or teams to" then I don't think it would be an issue or at least as much of an issue.

Speaking of which, are promoters, tracks, or teams allowed to hire them? From the way I read the press release I would think no.

[Nick6]

One more thing, motorsports like all other sports has a target demographic that is 95% plus male and is advertising a product, automobiles that is purchased by males 95% of the time. From a promotional and marketing stand point it makes sense to try to create a male centric environment. The number of ladies that are actually interested, and not just there with a male companion is so small of a number that it isnt worth the effort in trying to change the whole landscape of the sporting culture to please such a small number.

Sorry ladies, just practically speaking here.

[Peat]

I think that's a pretty outdated view, women have just as much purchasing power as men nowadays.

Motorsport as a whole is dying on it's arse. It needs all the friends it can get, so alienating women is not an option anymore.

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by Peat

I think that's a pretty outdated view, women have just as much purchasing power as men nowadays.

Motorsport as a whole is dying on it's arse. It needs all the friends it can get, so alienating women is not an option anymore.

Car buying IS a heavily male dominated purchasing market. Even in married house holds the man usually has some interaction with the transaction, even if its as little as talking to the salesman. If I'm so wrong on this then that must also mean men are equal buyers when it comes to shoes, clothing or anything to do with large shopping malls.

I've been to many race tracks and it doesn't take much to realise that its not a very female rich environment.

[Akrapovic]

Ever wondered why it is a male dominated environment? Ever wondered if the presence of barely clothed women standing around to get mens attention is somewhat uncomfortable for women?

And for the man here arguing that WEC will not gain one fan from the removal of grid girls - you're wrong. My wife was overjoyed at a move which will make it less uncomfortable for her to watch with this series. Fan gained.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Ever wondered why it is a male dominated environment? Ever wondered if the presence of barely clothed women standing around to get mens attention is somewhat uncomfortable for women?

And for the man here arguing that WEC will not gain one fan from the removal of grid girls - you're wrong. My wife was overjoyed at a move which will make it less uncomfortable for her to watch with this series. Fan gained.

Guess you don't go to the beach much!

OMG women in swimsuits!

Quick, put a stop to that too!

[isynge]

Originally Posted by wnut

Guess you don't go to the beach much!

OMG women in swimsuits!

Quick, put a stop to that too!

I honestly don't think it's an objection to how people choose to dress, it's how it's structured in terms of tacitly sending a message, and how it modifies people's behaviour.

People do behave differently at a race track, and not always in particularly edifying ways, and it's something that clearly makes quite a lot of others (many of them, but not all, women) uncomfortable. There's an atmosphere which conveys the attitudes of "motor racing is a male dominated sport" and as such it serves to exclude.

We've heard a lot of ways of defending this, ranging from human rights to women don't buy cars, but ultimately Akrapovic cuts to the heart of this - a move like this wins fans, and nothing that's been said here convinces me that it will lose any.

[Spyderman]

Let's face it;nothing could be said to convince you.
Take your victory laps, but be aware that one day you may awaken in a socially engineered world that may not be of your liking.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by wnut

Guess you don't go to the beach much!

OMG women in swimsuits!

Quick, put a stop to that too!

When you go to a beach there are people in swimwear because it's appropriate for that situation. People in swimwear is not appropriate for a racing circuit.

If you want this situation summed up: Some people are upset they don't get to look at half naked women at race tracks any more.

You can sit and cry human rights and all that stuff, but that argument fell apart when one person posted a photo of a body painted man at a BTCC event with the comment of "We have this to look forward to!" Yes, it's clearly about the womens rights isn't it? Not your right to enjoy half naked women in a family environment.

[Spyderman]

Actually I posted that. I was being facetious. I apologize it was lost on you.

Oh BTW - The last race I attended was 1999 Le Mans, so I really don't think the grid-girls are an integral part of my life.

[Spyderman]

We must stop the half nakedness!

[Peat]

and is there anything that could be said to convince you that this is not about prudishness and more about sending a clear message that the series views women as have more to offer motorsport than being mere decorations.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Peat

and is there anything that could be said to convince you that this is not about prudishness and more about sending a clear message that the series views women as have more to offer motorsport than being mere decorations.

Well, it's difficult to believe that when more than half of the arguments are based on the the fictitious notion that there are half naked women on the grid that are intimidating and embarrassing both men and women into whimpering heaps.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Nick6

One more thing, motorsports like all other sports has a target demographic that is 95% plus male and is advertising a product, automobiles that is purchased by males 95% of the time. From a promotional and marketing stand point it makes sense to try to create a male centric environment. The number of ladies that are actually interested, and not just there with a male companion is so small of a number that it isnt worth the effort in trying to change the whole landscape of the sporting culture to please such a small number.

Sorry ladies, just practically speaking here.

Originally Posted by Nick6

Car buying IS a heavily male dominated purchasing market. Even in married house holds the man usually has some interaction with the transaction, even if its as little as talking to the salesman. If I'm so wrong on this then that must also mean men are equal buyers when it comes to shoes, clothing or anything to do with large shopping malls.

I've been to many race tracks and it doesn't take much to realise that its not a very female rich environment.

95% of car buyers being men!?
Do you have anything to support that?
As I work for a car dealer I know that is not the case.
Unless it is a single man, the woman will in most cases decide the rough edges of what car needs to bought, and then let the man handle the details (many women don't seem interested in this part).
The best salesmen today knows, that if a couple are looking at a car together, you need to sell the car to the woman, more than the man, as it is the woman who in the end takes the final decision, only to leave the equipment and smaller specification up to the man. (Funny enough, this is enough for the man to feel that he bought the car)
If it were 95% of men buying the cars, we would see the car market being dominated by a completely different kind of cars, than we are today.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Ever wondered why it is a male dominated environment? Ever wondered if the presence of barely clothed women standing around to get mens attention is somewhat uncomfortable for women?

And for the man here arguing that WEC will not gain one fan from the removal of grid girls - you're wrong. My wife was overjoyed at a move which will make it less uncomfortable for her to watch with this series. Fan gained.

Thank you.
Maybe the reason why motorsport has such a low female spectator count is because they feel alienated by its culture, like the Grid Girls. (like Akrapovic's wife)

[Peat]

It is quite interesting how many angles there are to come at this.

I love boobies and (especially) bums, but I think Grid Girls/Promo girls at sporting events/exhibitions have had their day. It's just a bit....well....weird.

[Spyderman]

The nakedness in this picture is staggering! I feel sorry for these ladies having been forced to execute this demeaning task. I'm surprised the men around them can stand it!


BTW - This image is still being used by the FansWEC.org to promote their product.
If they object to the use of grid-girls claiming they reduce women's role as decorative , should they continue to use these images?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

BTW - This image is still being used by the FansWEC.org to promote their product.
If they object to the use of grid-girls claiming they reduce women's role as decorative , should they continue to use these images?

It's a fan website and not actually affiliated with the championship.

[Spyderman]

..but most likely sanctioned by them.

[Spyderman]

This picture was used by the WEC:

Although the nakedness here is blinding, one can still make out the grid-girls executing their demeaning and degrading tasks.

[Akrapovic]

I like how we're now picking and choosing photos to try and make the point. Happily ignoring any example which does not suit the arguments (which seems to change continually in this thread).

To sum this thread up:

Some men think it's their right to stare at pretty women who are doing nothing but being objects. When questioned on this, they will declare that the womans rights are being taken away. They will be unhappy at the suggestion of topples men doing the same job. They will not address why the series does not apparently have the right to remove this job role from the series which they own.

Glad to see that is summed up. Like the others who have agreed with the WECs decision, I'll now bow out of arguing in this thread. But I look forward to another 5 pages by tomorrow of the same people arguing that we're taking away womens rights to be objects for men to look at.

Who knew that treating men and women as equals would raise such an argument eh?