[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Is Vips outperforming Lawson? Neither Lawson or Vips seem impressive enough in F2 to warrant promotion IMO.

Hauger seems to be doing well also.

[peebee2]

Vips is next in line in theory, although the suspicion is that Lawson is the one in the pipeline who is the real deal.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Skam85

A fairly strong chance now would be Tsunoda and Vips at AT next season, with Gasly going to McLaren alongside Lando.

It would be an interesting move. McLaren seems to be effectively Lando's team now and Daniel has been comprehensively beaten by him. I wonder if Gasly would do any better? Could be make or break....

[S griffin]

I’m not sure it would the right move. Lando has been very impressive this season, using his head to get results. Ricciardo’s days seem numbers. Gasly is good, but he would probably get found out against Norris. And there aren’t many other options for him

[chillibowl]

Alonso and Vettel are at the end of their contracts this season as well i think?

i suppose for obvious reasons, could see Gasly moving to Alpine at some point soon.

[chunterer]

Gasly might get a 1 yr +option type of deal at Mclaren or Aston but not a long term deal. Plus it also depends on Marko giving him his 'blessing' or agreeing to an Albon type deal maybe?

Mclaren need Ricciardo to keep his place until end of '23 which is when Pato is likely to come in. Again that depends on his performances over there.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Gasly might get a 1 yr +option type of deal at Mclaren or Aston but not a long term deal. Plus it also depends on Marko giving him his 'blessing' or agreeing to an Albon type deal maybe?

Mclaren need Ricciardo to keep his place until end of '23 which is when Pato is likely to come in. Again that depends on his performances over there.

I just don't see that. Can McLaren keep going with a significantly underperforming driver for so long?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Alonso and Vettel are at the end of their contracts this season as well i think?

i suppose for obvious reasons, could see Gasly moving to Alpine at some point soon.

They have Piastri in the wings, although he might likely go to a lowly team on loan from Alpine to cut his teeth before coming 'home' to Alpine a year later.

I dont normally get too excited about rookies coming in.... not many arrive like Lewis or Max ticking boxes more or less from day 1.... but Piastri just might be the next.

[S griffin]

The problem with Piastri is he is in a team that has no link to another team. And Alpine wouldn’t want to let him go to another team so easily. So he’s in a bit of a tricky situation

As for rookies, it depends where they go and who else is with them to see what they can achieve. But the likes of Hamilton showed greatness right from the off. Some have looked good to begin with, but then don’t do much and get left out. I’m yet to be convinced fully by Piastri, despite his talent

[Richard C]

I think Alpine already previously said they would loan Piastri to McLaren to replace a sick Ricciardo. So the potential of Piastri outside of Alpine already existed. I like E.B's idea of a one year loan (assuming Alpine does not have a seat for him) if McLaren would need only to fill a seat for one year. Alpine would love for him to have one year of F1 experience, especially in another team, before putting him in their own car. But McLaren may not want to break in two rookies two years in a row.

Richard

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think Alpine already previously said they would loan Piastri to McLaren to replace a sick Ricciardo. So the potential of Piastri outside of Alpine already existed. I like E.B's idea of a one year loan (assuming Alpine does not have a seat for him) if McLaren would need only to fill a seat for one year. Alpine would love for him to have one year of F1 experience, especially in another team, before putting him in their own car.

Richard

To me the available seat (at Alpine) depends on whether Alonso wants to continue..... I get the impression he still does want to continue and is still excited about F1.

If McLaren are still hell bent on introducing one of their Indycar connections (O'Ward / Herta) to F1, Piastri for a year would give them a year to give the chosen one (Indycar driver) some testing time, Friday sessions, rookie /young driver days etc rather than throw them in the deep end with a couple of days pre season and then a full GP, which 'could' potentially kill a career before it started.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by E.B

To me the available seat (at Alpine) depends on whether Alonso wants to continue..... I get the impression he still does want to continue and is still excited about F1.

If McLaren are still hell bent on introducing one of their Indycar connections (O'Ward / Herta) to F1, Piastri for a year would give them a year to give the chosen one (Indycar driver) some testing time, Friday sessions, rookie /young driver days etc rather than throw them in the deep end with a couple of days pre season and then a full GP, which 'could' potentially kill a career before it started.

I would suggest that bearing in mind the likes of Grojean and McGloughlin keep them honest in spec cars F1 may come as a shock to these USA hot shoes…..

[Theunser]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

I would suggest that bearing in mind the likes of Grojean and McGloughlin keep them honest in spec cars F1 may come as a shock to these USA hot shoes…..

In the last 40 years no one who came from Indy/CART/IRL was succesful, except Villeneuve. There is a huge difference between European and American racing culture.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Theunser

In the last 40 years no one who came from Indy/CART/IRL was succesful, except Villeneuve. There is a huge difference between European and American racing culture.

Montoya was successful. Da Matta was fairly competitive. Zanardi was a strange situation for him and the team!

It all depends on the timimg and equipment, for any decent driver. The new F1 cars are probably more suited to Indycar drivers than the previous generation.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I just don't see that. Can McLaren keep going with a significantly underperforming driver for so long?

What I meant is Mclaren need him to do better so they don't have to bring in their next deiver too early. I.E an Indycar driver.

[Theunser]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Montoya was successful. Da Matta was fairly competitive. Zanardi was a strange situation for him and the team!

It all depends on the timimg and equipment, for any decent driver. The new F1 cars are probably more suited to Indycar drivers than the previous generation.

How could I forget Montoya??

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I just don't see that. Can McLaren keep going with a significantly underperforming driver for so long?

Lando has his measure.
There is no question about that.
McLaren had Lando cheap and paid big to secure DR but it turned out the guy they were nurturing was gold or platinum!
So the questions over DR are more along the line of 'this guy is costing us too much'.
Signing him for that money is McLarens mistake not Daniels.

On the other side DR came in believing he had their confidence and could settle in and begin picking up quite quickly but it turned out that Lando had an edge knowing the car and the team and he was at least as quick or quicker.
So that has been pivotal in this whole situation and it hasn't helped that they car and driving style suits Lando more than DR.
After the Monza win it seemed Daniel had turned a corner but it was more likely that he car was able to be driven in the way DR like on that track which is pretty much point and squirt.
At Sochi Lando nearly won the race but didn't and the fall away by McLaren engineering over the American/Mexican/Brazilian trio of races was quite staggering. ferrari pounced on the weaknesses.

The present situation is still weak.
Lando is producing but the team is not engineering both cars to help their drivers and I think the weakness in their approach has more to do with the team than the driver. DR still drove to their only win in the hybrid era and until Lando can win on merit or at least place in a consistent top 5 they way George is doing with the W13 I think orange engineering is as much a part of the problem, or more a part of the issue, as the Aussie driver.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Theunser

How could I forget Montoya??

Or Villenuerve

[E.B]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Or Villenuerve

or even Villeneuve!

[S griffin]

Bourdais was another one. Didn't look too bad against Vettel in 08, but luck tended not to go his way. Then his morale seemed to drop in 09

[Mike Harte]

Formal documents have been presented that state that it is the intention of Porsche to purchase 50% of Red Bull Technology, with the belief that they will also purchase 50% of the racing team.

See: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fi...aled/10344245/

[tux]

What does that do with Honda? Weren't they rumored to be coming back to F1?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by tux

What does that do with Honda? Weren't they rumored to be coming back to F1?

They're just keeping it as an option after the 2026 regulations are determined.

Lawrence Barretto (16 Jul 22): 'So when I caught up with Watanabe in Red Bull’s Energy Station, I asked him if Honda and HRC were interested in keeping abreast of the 2026 regulation changes, he replied: “Formula 1 is the top motorsports category, so we are always watching what is happening in the F1 world.

“Of course, we just finished and concluded our activities [in F1], so nothing [has been] discussed within the Honda company about 2026 season. So, no plan.”

He added: “It is not a closed door [to F1]. My understanding is that F1 is discussing to decide the regulations for 2026, and definitely the direction is carbon neutrality. That is the same direction as us. It is probably also a good opportunity to study carbon neutrality to F1, so it’s not a closed door.”

Watanabe said Honda haven’t been involved in the 2026 engine rules discussions and are “just watching”.

The Japanese manufacturer’s priority right now is to concentrate on achieving carbon neutrality with their mass production road cars but Watanabe says, “once we can realise that we can achieve this, we can consider F1.”'

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by tux

What does that do with Honda? Weren't they rumored to be coming back to F1?

I think it just means that IF Honda comes back, they will not be providing a power unit for Red Bull and probably not Alpha Tauri as well. Honda coming back is a big "maybe" as outlined above.

Richard

[Peter Mallett]

Off topic, but today I drove past Mugen Honda's Milton Keynes Facility.