[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It would be good to have MB Motorsport run two cars again, they've proven their skills in running the team. They probably would just continue as a satellite team to WSR too.

Do MB Motorsport actually really run a team now then?

Or is it still just a sponsorship agency in reality?

[tocatrucky]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It would be good to have MB Motorsport run two cars again, they've proven their skills in running the team. They probably would just continue as a satellite team to WSR too.

Originally Posted by peebee2

Do MB Motorsport actually really run a team now then?

Or is it still just a sponsorship agency in reality?

MB Motorsport has never been a team. With the Civics and Focii it was just a title sponsor to AmD and Motorbase.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by tocatrucky

MB Motorsport has never been a team. With the Civics and Focii it was just a title sponsor to AmD and Motorbase.

Thanks. I didn't think so, but I was nearly falling for nonsense again!

[crmalcolm]

I think we really know what S griffin meant though.

If you want to be pedantic about it - I think S griffin means:

"It would be good to have MB Motorsport run two cars again, they've proven their skills in [putting together a package that sees their brand represented as a BTCC] team. They probably would just continue as a [primary sponsor of a] satellite team to WSR [if their entry expanded to 2 cars]."

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think we really know what S griffin meant though.

If you want to be pedantic about it - I think S griffin means:

"It would be good to have MB Motorsport run two cars again, they've proven their skills in [putting together a package that sees their brand represented as a BTCC] team. They probably would just continue as a [primary sponsor of a] satellite team to WSR [if their entry expanded to 2 cars]."

Why say “they've proven their skills in running the team” then, when “they’ve” done no such thing at all then…

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Why say “they've proven their skills in running the team” then, when “they’ve” done no such thing at all then…

There is far more to running a team than setting up the car. Without all the marketing and looking after the sponsors you never get to that stage. That's what MB excel at.

It's just semantics as to what you think running a team means.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

There is far more to running a team than setting up the car. Without all the marketing and looking after the sponsors you never get to that stage. That's what MB excel at.

It's just semantics as to what you think running a team means.

Thanks. Yes, it was as I originally thought, before I read the strange comment.

They don’t run a team at all, though they are doubtless good at what they do do.

[redshoes]

Semantics aside, I think we can safely assume MB's involvement will be on the sponsorship/management side and not the spannering. So where does that leave them?

Acquire a TBL (buy/borrow from Boardley, or look for a TOCA loan) and ask WSR to run a forth car? Not sure how likely either part of that is.

Partnership with Cicely? Gives you access to the customer BMWs but will probably mean Morgan will be one car. Nothing against Morgan but little point in expanding to a 2-car team if you don't have control over who drives the second car.

Laser Tools? Same issue with Moffat in the second car with the added complication of potentially building a replacement for the Infiniti.

Excelr8? Motorbase? Have the potential to run 2 teams of 2 cars, and both the Hyundai and Ford looks to be a decent package in the right hands. Of the two I think Excelr8 could be serious possibility.

BTC? Assuming Plato retires then it's possible the Adrian Flux sponsorship might disappear in which case they might welcome a re-brand a MB for 2 cars.

Dynamics? Possible but somehow doesn't seem likely.

Speedworks? Too involved with Toyota to re-brand the cars as MB.
PMR? Similarly too involved with Power Maxed own branding.

HARD? no comment

[thetool]

Given the financial situations of a lot of drivers and sponsors at the moment it wouldn't surprise me to see some significant changes for next season. I suspect we'll be in for a year where money talks more than ever and some high profile drives will be filled by some rather less talented drivers.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Excelr8? Motorbase? Have the potential to run 2 teams of 2 cars, and both the Hyundai and Ford looks to be a decent package in the right hands. Of the two I think Excelr8 could be serious possibility.

Having worked with Motorbase before - are there any bridges burnt there?

Hill knows the Focus (assuming he stays with the team), although that might 'fix' them to Osborne in the second car too.

I still think a 'Boardley' TBL is the most likely - maybe as another WSR customer?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Having worked with Motorbase before - are there any bridges burnt there?

Hill knows the Focus (assuming he stays with the team), although that might 'fix' them to Osborne in the second car too.

I still think a 'Boardley' TBL is the most likely - maybe as another WSR customer?

I'm not aware of any issues over the way MB and Motorbase parted company, but that's not to say there weren't any. I almost mentioned Osbourne; not sure how much of a fixture he is within the team, but assumed it was less than Morgan/Moffatt.

I assume you mean acquiring both Boardley TBLs and forming a new 2-car squad using a completely different team doing the engineering. That paying for the TBL purchase and funding the build of 2 new cars - that's quite a big investment.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I'm not aware of any issues over the way MB and Motorbase parted company, but that's not to say there weren't any. I almost mentioned Osbourne; not sure how much of a fixture he is within the team, but assumed it was less than Morgan/Moffatt.

I assume you mean acquiring both Boardley TBLs and forming a new 2-car squad using a completely different team doing the engineering. That paying for the TBL purchase and funding the build of 2 new cars - that's quite a big investment.

I'm not sure of the specifics - but I thought Pete Osborne's involvement at Motorbase meant that Sam was always likely to be part of the deal.

In respect to them getting a new set of engineering - Shaun Hollamby is still involved with the MB Motorsport team (AFAIK). He tweeted only today about 'our engineer' (Craig) being in hospital and his profile describes himself as 'Team Manager @MB_Motorsport' (although he tagged the wrong MB account ).

MB Motorsport has run a 2-car team successfully before in 2020 with Hollamby and Blundell at the helm - I'm sure they could do the same again.

[Mike Harte]

Would that mean an influx of 'Meeting with Shaun' tweets clogging up the airwaves?

[Ant25]

It’s going to be very interesting I think

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by redshoes

HARD? no comment

Ye of little faith! I'm sure the Hills would love working with HARD again!

[S griffin]

I had a feeling Shaun was still involved. MB Motorsport are really just a rebrand of AMD.

[touringlegend]

Wouldnt be surprised to see Plato stay.. hes said hes having second thoughts.

[Millvi]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Wouldnt be surprised to see Plato stay.. hes said hes having second thoughts.

I agree. He knows how good that Civic can be with the right powerplant. Hints of BTC Racing's engine plans in Steve Dudman's audio interview that came through on my Spotify the other day.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Wouldnt be surprised to see Plato stay.. hes said hes having second thoughts.

Perhaps how big or little a send-off he gets at Brands might be a clue. Was nowhere at Silverstone though.

[mprmke]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Perhaps how big or little a send-off he gets at Brands might be a clue. Was nowhere at Silverstone though.

Was still very close to Cook for the most part in reality. Due to incidents and things opening up, Cook managed to get up a bit in R2 for a reverse grid pole, but then got mugged too easily. Cook, in that car, at Silverstone should have had an easy lights-to-flag win if it was working anywhere near like it should be.

I would love to see Plato have another season in that car. A season in a "peak" BTC Honda would have been a perfect send-off, so it seems a real shame to only get it in what is really an "experimental" season for Hybrid, and with a lousy engine that doesn't suit the car. Particularly seeing as Plato has always been more vocal than anyone in the past about the shortcomings of the TOCA engine.

Also a shame for Cook, as given the Hybrid ups and downs of other cars, if he had the BTC Honda firing on all cylinders (not literally), on paper I'd have said this should have been his year to win his first title.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by mprmke

Also a shame for Cook, as given the Hybrid ups and downs of other cars, if he had the BTC Honda firing on all cylinders (not literally), on paper I'd have said this should have been his year to win his first title.

I do feel for him. Could be a big part of silly season - stay on with BTC and the good chassis in the hope that the engine situation is different next year? Or make the move elsewhere, where he might have a better chance at the title?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

I do feel for him. Could be a big part of silly season - stay on with BTC and the good chassis in the hope that the engine situation is different next year? Or make the move elsewhere, where he might have a better chance at the title?

If it were me - I would opt to stay with a chassis that is proven and a team he has built a good working relationship with - and hope that the engine issues can be resolved.
Speedworks has shown that the installation (if you get on top of it) can be a front-runner.

[mprmke]

A lesser driver and/or a driver less familiar than Cook with that car would be absolutely nowhere, so he's worked miracles to get to where he is this season really. It does show that if they get back on top of the car and engine situation then it will be the best place for him to be.

The Dynamics Honda hasn't been all that this season, and that's with a Honda engine, so the engine position and a number of other things obviously aren't working all that great with the Hybrid system. But it's still clearly quicker than the BTC Honda this year, whereas it's consistently been the other way round in recent past years.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by SSmith

I was thinking about this after Parfitt said that. One would also imagine that the Vauxhall Astras may be in their final season too given that the bodyshape/model has been in use for 6 seasons. There is a new Civic Type R on sale, so maybe Team Dynamics could bring that to the BTCC.

If Laser Tools want to stay with RWD, I guess their options are either to try and buy BMWs (if you can't beat them, join them) or maybe bring a brand like Audi back to the BTCC? The Audi RS 3 could be a good fit.

From a more general POV. Team HARD could probably build more CUPRAs too, but given those cars have a relative lack of performance, I can't imagine Laser Tools would be massively interested in them. I also wonder if Motorbase, Speedworks, and Excelr8 would sell the Focus, Corolla, and i30N to other teams.

Some cars that would seem to logically fit the regulations - '22 Audi RS 3, '22 Vauxhall Astra, '22 Honda Civic Type R, 3rd-gen Peugeot 308, VW Golf Mk8, Alfa Romeo Giulia

Some wildcards - the '21 Volvo V60/S60, Jaguar XE, the Mercedes-Benz A-Class/B-Class/C-Class, Renault Megane, KIA Ceed/Proceed.

Also, I'm not sure if any of the current MINI range is the correct dimensions? From memory, the MINI Hatch 5-door, and Clubman look about right.

RS3 uses a transverse engine with a Haldex rear diff... so would only be able to run FWD in BTCC. You need to look at the A4 for a "RWD" BTCC Audi as it the smallest Audi with a longitudinal mounted engine. Other options are jag, merc c class or alfa guilia.

[mprmke]

The RWD A4, a la Rob Austin, always looked very lairy and like the driver was rarely in control, in comparison to a "proper" RWD car like the BMW, which always looked absolutely planted.

That said, the Infiniti resembles the Audi more than the BMW in full flow, but that suited Sutton and his driving style, hence why no one else has ever been anywhere in an Infiniti, apart from Moffat to a point when he had Sutton to help him.