Historic Racing Today

[Mike Harte]

There are so many reasons for poor spectator numbers that you could probably write a book about it, and many of the reasons have been expressed here.

What has to be taken into consideration is that life is totally different to how it was decades ago. As a generality, we are a wealthier society than previously was the case, and we have far more "temptations" than just standing on a muddy bank watching cars go around. And we can now watch a lot of it on our computers and TVs, which for the lazier amongst us means that we don't even need to leave our couches to see all the action.

We (using the royal we, here) also have far different priorities as competitors; we are, as a whole, seeking value for money or added value, when selecting those races to enter. This is not something that entered our minds in the 60s and 70s; we could barely afford to race at all, but many of us would traipse around the country to compete in a particular championship. In my case, it was the Redex Championship, and a race at Oulton Park made no sense at all, but most of us dragged our cars up there. And that was for 15 minutes combined practice and qualification, followed by a 10 lap race after an 8 or 9 hour drive up from London on the Friday night, leaving at around 11 when we had finished installing the re-built motor. The only saving grace was that the return journey was broken by another round of the championship at Mallory on the Sunday, having slept in the car overnight. Up early to change gearbox and diff for the teeny-weeny circuit, followed by 15 minutes practice and 10 lap race which was over almost before you could blink.

But the circuits we crowded with spectators, because what was there to do, really especially on a Sunday. Your wife/girlfriend couldn't drag you around the shops as that wasn't allowed, cinemas didn't open their doors until the evenings, football was never played on a Sunday, and daytime sex hadn't been discovered yet!

[Alan Morgan]

Very true Mike. I used to do F4 in the seventies and I can remember Alex Lowe traipsing all the way down from Liverpool to do a 10-lap race at Lydden. That's well under 8 minutes of racing time. I shudder to think how long the journey home would have taken in 1976...

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

Very true Mike. I used to do F4 in the seventies and I can remember Alex Lowe traipsing all the way down from Liverpool to do a 10-lap race at Lydden. That's well under 8 minutes of racing time. I shudder to think how long the journey home would have taken in 1976...

The same level of challenge these days would probably require an entry for a Beijing-Paris rally.

Or would it?

In the mid 70s I could do Guildford to Birmingham during the day in less than 3 hours despite the absence of the M25.

Northampton, as I recall, was about 2 hours. An hour to get to Watford and an hour on the motorway and into the town.

Not much passed me on the M1 at about 70mph which was just about flat out in a 1300cc Escort van. Neither did I pass much, other than the occasional not vary fast truck.

Mind you by the end of the trip I often felt like I had just completed a long distance rally ...

Brands to Liverpool would, I would guess, add about 1 1/2 hours both ends of that trip and it's no mean undertaking for a few minutes on track at Lydden. But as a young person back then it might just have been "something you did."

These days, as an older person and despite the probability of a more sophisticated and comfortable vehicle, one might choose not to bother.

Thankfully there are a few who do decide that it's worth it to them and so keep the "tradition" alive. Plus more than a few who will visit from far greater distances for less track time than they will spend queuing at airport security in the course of the trip.

All of which puts my earlier comment to shame ....

[bauble]

You fellows think you had it hard, why me and a friend would CYCLE from North London to Goodwood for the 9Hour race, finishing at midnight, and then cycle home. Snetterton and back 100 mile each way?

Brands was a doddle, Silverstone, not too bad, Crystal Palace, a stroll in the park.

Of course we couldn't afford a car.

Bob the Bike.

[delta]

I've biked back from Fruxton. Does that count Bob😀😀

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by delta

I've biked back from Fruxton. Does that count Bob����

What, towing your racing car behind you?

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by bauble

You fellows think you had it hard, why me and a friend would CYCLE from North London to Goodwood for the 9Hour race, finishing at midnight, and then cycle home. Snetterton and back 100 mile each way?

Brands was a doddle, Silverstone, not too bad, Crystal Palace, a stroll in the park.

Of course we couldn't afford a car.

Bob the Bike.

Aye and we used to work 25 hour days down t'pit and live in a shoe box in t'middle of t'road. Times was 'Ard but we was 'appy.

Youth of today, they don't know they're born.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Peter Mallett]

Cardboard box?

[Moneyseeker]

What are the historic racers views on being a 'guest' round at some contemporary meetings - I recall that this has been done before at a BTCC round and a classic series used to support the British GT Champ (not sure if it still does), to showcase historic racing to perhaps a 'new' audience.

[delta]

Yes back in the 70,s we would be support to British F3 . That was great mixing it with Senna,Piquet,Mansell and so on . We were set up next to our Nige when he threw his toys out at Thruxton . Happy days

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Cardboard box?

Pah!

We used to sleep in the cast-off newspaper wrappings from other people's fish and chips ...... cardboard is for wusses.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by grantp

Pah!

We used to sleep in the cast-off newspaper wrappings from other people's fish and chips ...... cardboard is for wusses.

We always referred to the 'dailies' as blankets.

To be honest Midge I just don't believe you.

[terence]

Originally Posted by grantp

Pah!

We used to sleep in the cast-off newspaper wrappings from other people's fish and chips ...... cardboard is for wusses.

Ah,the lovely scent of salt and vinigar.We used to go to a posh shop,they used clean white paper.😆

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by chunder

I think there are only a few events that even attempt to cater for spectators. THe Classic, the two Goodwood meetings and the Brands Historic weekend, perhaps the Donington event too.

That is enough for me, though I rarely attend more than one of those events a year as most of the competitors in them are the same, barr the odd grandee series and driver/car combo.

It isn't about attracting fans, those days are long gone and never to return I am afraid, the world has moved on apace.

I think the best that can be done is locally, someone mentioned Combe earlier and they did a fabulous job of getting people in to their track. Lots of events but centered around a few open rules sort of series to attract a lot of drivers.

It worked for many years, not sure if it still does. But you have a big catchment area in Bristol, Bath, Taunton, Yeovil etc.

Palmer is only interested in getting you to spend money, he wants you to get involved in track days and experiences, fair enough he is now SOLELY a businessman not a fan. But that model does not attract fans to watch, and that aspect of motorsport is now almost totally ignored unless you are paying silly entrance money.

THAT ladies and gentlemen...is the whole truth and nothing but the truth!!!

[GORDON STREETER]

Getting anywhere now also makes people think about travelling distances what with overcrowded roads and massive traffic jams.
In 1970 it used to take me 5hrs to get to Cadwell park with and Anglia van and two wheeled trailer without such a thing as the M25/M11, the last time I raced there it took longer because of a crash on the M11 and that was leaving at stupid oclock ! This must also have an effect on people (except the die hard fans) that might well go and watch. And as for going abroad via Dover Calais this year !!!!
As I have mentioned in the past for me on a Sunday there was Brands Hatch or Church

[grantp]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Getting anywhere now also makes people think about travelling distances what with overcrowded roads and massive traffic jams.
In 1970 it used to take me 5hrs to get to Cadwell park with and Anglia van and two wheeled trailer without such a thing as the M25/M11, the last time I raced there it took longer because of a crash on the M11 and that was leaving at stupid oclock ! This must also have an effect on people (except the die hard fans) that might well go and watch. And as for going abroad via Dover Calais this year !!!!
As I have mentioned in the past for me on a Sunday there was Brands Hatch or Church

So, visits to Brands somewhat restricted then Gordon?

Shorter opening hours at pubs on Sundays too as I recall. So all in all going to an event made much more sense and allowed people to spend money that they could not otherwise easily dispose of.

No such problems today.

[terence]

Going to a rce circuit on Sunday was the closest I coud get to heaven.Not so much fire and brimstone in those days either.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by terence

Going to a rce circuit on Sunday was the closest I coud get to heaven.

Yeah that !

[chunder]

You need to factor in fuel prices again now aswell I think, and it's only going to get worse in the next few months.

I predict 1.50 a litre within a year if the pound continues to suffer. That will put a stop on a lot of people wanting to do anything at weekends as it will become so expensive to go anywhere. What was once 20 quid will become 30. If you are towing and a big expense for you is fuel there and back and race fuel that might affect your decisions to race somewhere.

And of course, everything else will rise so as usual the common man gets squeezed more and more and more, and they wonder why people don't spend as much as they did.

[VIVA GT]

I suppose another thing that's changed since I was spectating & competing is that there are more things to do on a Sunday nowadays.
30 - 40 years ago, Sunday was a special day which (as Zef has alluded to) meant if you didn't go to church, there weren't that many other distractions. Nowadays, Sunday is potentially a very busy day for people, most shops are open, there are more 'other sports' events happening (whereas soccer & rugby were traditionally Saturday afternoons only) and many other distractions. I suppose that all of this adds to the reasons why less people are spectating & competing in all types of motorsport nowadays?

[chunder]

A lot more could be done in MSA terms to get people involved in motor racing in general.

All they ever seem to push is marshalling or organising which is great, helpful and useful to clubs and running events, but they never really push actual competing to any great degree.

They want your subs from clubs, they want you to spend on ARDS tests, but they are just rather unnecessary barriers preventing people getting involved or having a go. Where is the MSA Go racing stand at the NEC getting people to turn up and have a go in something at a test day or something, the simulator trying to whet the appetite, the people asking the right questions to see if you might be interested. There is just apathy.

There should be initial access to getting into a race car or kart that is almost free, the MSA could afford this with the vast wealth at their disposal. And that might entice a lot more people to take part. Or a sim centre or something.

It is not difficult, but if there is not an opportunity to make money out of it, they seem disinterested, therefore the general public is too. Why do people go to museums etc? Coz they are interesting and often free and great for families, why can't the MSA do something like this and see if that works? You get nothing rarely if you bang down a money barrier instantly.

In this day and age you have to be proactive to actually entice people away from other things and out of their apathy. You can obviously compete if you really want to, but in my experience there are countless barriers in place and I simply lost interest. There is NO clear route without money and a heavy initial outlay, and there really could be with a bit of investment and looking to the future instead of cacking themselves about safety and profit.

Some of what I say is not likely, fanciful or even farcical to some. But little effort is made, on that I think we can all agree.

[bauble]

The Morgan Motor club runs 'Taster Days' for owners who might like to try their hand at speed events, an easy introduction to racing with plenty of advice and help from members. While this is obviously aimed at a limited number of people the idea is sound and could easily be used by other organisations. perhaps.

[chunder]

Precisely, a great idea for smaller organisations like that to try and improve their series, hardly brain surgery is it, but you do wonder at times what the motives behind bigger organisations!!!

[Rudernst]

take a step back
or even better: two

first question:
is Historic Amateur Racing alone among Amateur Racing in having less and less spectators for the smaler clubbie events ?
answer: to my knowledge, no !
I went Fun Cup racing two years ago, and there were very very few spectators, (admittedly in November at Donington, not excatly a day at the sunny beach)
so its not Historic racing that suffer specifically
its just that people dont go to racetracks just to see some cars
there has to be a good reason

second question:
can Historic racing really expect to be different from other amateur sports events ?
answer: NOOO !
would you expect people to come in large crowds to see you daughter playing hockey or tennis ?
certainly not,
so why should the bother to go and watch amateurs race cars ?
so you say: because car racing is more spectacular
well, yes and no
my son plays Polo, which is a spectacular sport
but very few people apart from family will watch a small clubbie Polo tournament, and they certainly would expect to get in free
Polo is largely an amateuer sport in Europe,
events can draw large paying crowds if properly and professionally promoted, by somebody who expects to make money
only difference is that Polo events draw in more sponsorship

but by and large
the mechanisms in Polo are the same as in Historic Racing

times might have been different
and when Historic Racing was new
and exiting to see certain cars out on the track for the first time in decades
it might have been easier to draw crowds
some classes such as HGPCA even got starting money

but that was yesterday or yesteryear

we live today

dont get me wrong, I like having spectators and enthusiasts at the track
i try to do my part to make them feel welcome
(not 10 minutes before i get into the car, of course)
its just that i dont expect that
its more an added bonus

Rudolf

[andy97]

I agree with Rudolph, and to add to his list, I don't expect any spectators to watch me play golf, and I'm probably better at that than I am at racing, lol.

I have mentioned the difference in oval racing but the one other motorsport area that does seem to attract spectators is rallying, particularly the new MSVR MN circuit rally series. And if it's anything like last year, the Neil Howard stages at Outon on 5 Nove will be very busy.