[Official] British Grand Prix 2020: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 4

[Lancsbreaker]

Hadn't seen the rear-facing onboards, but when we watched it on Sunday my mate and I were pretty well convinced that it had to be a tyre deflation that caused the sudden snap left....on one of the shots before impact we thought you could see the tyre deflated.....and the commentators on Sky were largely of the same opinion......evidently we were right



I doubt when tyres are as destroyed as the ones this weekend it is possible to tell for certain whether something punctured them or there was structural failure...

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

Besides Pirelli determined the stint lengths for the rest of the tyres, ergo the failures are at their door.

yeah, because the teams definitely don't run their own simulations, models and strategies for every potential track temperature and setup variable to figure out their own stint lengths and pitstop windows...

i do agree that something went very wrong though. i'd love to know exactly how they failed.

[Akrapovic]

Wasn't the stint length less than what Pirelli said the maximum length should be?

[Adam43]

Pirelli sting length information should be classed as advice not a guarantee. It is an extreme environment with everyone pushing the limits. Which is a good thing.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Pirelli sting length information should be classed as advice not a guarantee. It is an extreme environment with everyone pushing the limits. Which is a good thing.

Then again Pirelli are not competing against anyone, they are merely supplying a spec component and specifying its life. (Incorrectly apparently)
It looks like they did not allow enough for the high temperatures at the circuit, and simply got it wrong. Perhaps they did not expect the cars to change so early in the race, so had drawn up the life for a lighter fuel load, again, they got the window wrong.

[Adam43]

But there is a life to this kind of product and the teams and the drivers are all pushing the limits (on set up and driving). It’s still advisory. I suppose they could go conservative and knock ten laps off the estimation, but then the data is really useless. The teams would twig and push the limits anyway.

If everything was perfectly predictable then F1 then that would firstly be amazing, but also make F1 even more predictable and dull. The sheer consistency and predictability, with all those simulations are the main thing that has made F1 so boring.

Yet we can’t take something that remains difficult to calculate exactly and say that it should be. We hate it and have to deride it and those involved in it. Threaten to boycott a company because they can’t make something perfect in such an environment (when also asked not to).

They were given a limit. They pushed hard, should realise the conditions are quite extreme (Silverstone, race pace, temperatures) and push it. Blummin’ brilliant.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wnut

Pirelli claims it is a puncture every time

I would like to see someone do an article on how post failure analysis is performed on an F1 tire. Maybe they are all puncture, or maybe not. As of now, I have no way to know if it is true as the tire manufacture seems to be a black box. This is probably also true with other manufactures in other series. They are probably quite guarded about the technology including any type of failure analysis.

Richard

[sizzle]

So the FIA have asked for a new kerb at Becketts to assist with track limits.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...it-of-becketts

Snip
"To help the drivers adhere to track limits this weekend, at the request of the FIA, a 23-metre section of kerb with taper has been installed at the exit of turn 13 ahead of this weekend's 70th Anniversary Grand Prix," a Silverstone spokesperson confirmed.

Take more of them away not put them in!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Adam43

But there is a life to this kind of product and the teams and the drivers are all pushing the limits (on set up and driving). It’s still advisory. I suppose they could go conservative and knock ten laps off the estimation, but then the data is really useless. The teams would twig and push the limits anyway.

If everything was perfectly predictable then F1 then that would firstly be amazing, but also make F1 even more predictable and dull. The sheer consistency and predictability, with all those simulations are the main thing that has made F1 so boring.

Yet we can’t take something that remains difficult to calculate exactly and say that it should be. We hate it and have to deride it and those involved in it. Threaten to boycott a company because they can’t make something perfect in such an environment (when also asked not to).

They were given a limit. They pushed hard, should realise the conditions are quite extreme (Silverstone, race pace, temperatures) and push it. Blummin’ brilliant.

Wasn't it said a long time ago (and I don't know by who) that "the best race engine is one that blows up just after the car crosses the finishing line"? (Meaning that it had done it's job & then expired). If that's the case then Lewis' tyres were only less than a lap short of being perfect...

[S griffin]

I think it might have been someone like Colin Chapman who said that quote

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

Then again Pirelli are not competing against anyone, they are merely supplying a spec component and specifying its life. (Incorrectly apparently)
It looks like they did not allow enough for the high temperatures at the circuit, and simply got it wrong. Perhaps they did not expect the cars to change so early in the race, so had drawn up the life for a lighter fuel load, again, they got the window wrong.

again, that’s all stuff teams will have seen in their modelling and tests. you adjust tyre pressures to suit track temperature even before they’re out of the blankets, that’s what the tyre guys do with themselves once everything is fitted..

tyres are the only component they evidently don’t “life” militarily. why? they can blame someone else for failures because they’re given guidelines.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

again, that’s all stuff teams will have seen in their modelling and tests. you adjust tyre pressures to suit track temperature even before they’re out of the blankets, that’s what the tyre guys do with themselves once everything is fitted..

tyres are the only component they evidently don’t “life” militarily. why? they can blame someone else for failures because they’re given guidelines.

The tyre pressures, cambers and maximum stint lengths are all specified in mandatory guidelines supplied by Pirelli Bella. So they are run within the parameters specified by the supplier, militarily.

[bella]

yes. it's not my first rodeo.

just because pirelli say you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. it's an operating window.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

yes. it's not my first rodeo.

just because pirelli say you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. it's an operating window.

I have never treated you as if it was Bella.

Just for the sake of clarity.

Pirelli's window for the tyres was 50 laps.

The failures occurred:

Kvyat 12 laps
Bottas 37 laps
Sainz 38 laps
Hamilton 39 laps

[bjohnsonsmith]

Pirelli are saying Kvyat's tyre failure was caused by the inside of the wheel rim overheating but there is no explanation as to why it overheated.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/k...paign=widget-2

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Pirelli are saying Kvyat's tyre failure was caused by the inside of the wheel rim overheating but there is no explanation as to why it overheated.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/k...paign=widget-2

Hope one of the journalists is busy following this up with RBR.

[RWill2073]

So I'm way late to the conversation, but why are people upset at the tire situation? Everyone could see the line on bottas' especially laps before it failed. Either back off or pit or have what happened happen. It was drama, intrigue, strategy, excitement. We want less of that? Aren't ecu's a spec part? And dont they fail from time to time? Why isn't that generating pages of complaints? It happens.

Also, good to see that horseshoe is still firmly planted in Hamilton's rear. Both cars have tire failure, one happens on pit straight, other further along the lap. One finishes 11th, the other 1st. I get that luck is improved by putting yourself in the best situations and being an all time great, but cmon...

Wasn't it at Silverstone last year that both he and bottas spun on same corner, but bottas hit wall and hamilton didn't, and went on to win? And the ex driver commentator said both spins were identical and was down to luck as to whether they hit the wall. Dude is just charmed in all circumstances, best driver or not.

So it looks like it wasn't a gasly problem last year, but a "max verstappens teammate" problem. He just trounces whoever they put there.

Also, saw some criticism of Vettel, but he lost almost 2 whole sessions with car issues. Plus, I'm sure he's not getting the first priority in anything as far as common parts right now. And I wouldn't blame him for being disinterested.

Stroll performing so well just goes to show me that f1 isn't close to the 20 elite drivers on the planet, unless by elite, you mean rich. Its nurture over nature imo.

I recently began listening to a podcast by david samson who used to be the president of the florida Marlins (baseball team here in US). He goes into the front office thinking of things. He said that players association reps for the union are picked by who's either lowest on seniority or who is least liked in the clubhouse. Nobody wants it. Couldn't help but snicker after hearing them say grosjean is the drivers rep. Makes sense to me. One of the lesser drivers who certainly wasn't well liked or respected in this race!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by wnut

Hope one of the journalists is busy following this up with RBR.

Let's hope they get Woodward and Bernstein onto this.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Let's hope they get Woodward and Bernstein onto this.

Tyregate?

[Adam43]

I'm surprised we've not had that. Or Perezgate, brakeductgate, Vettelgate. Everyone has a conspiracy theory, it saves thinking.

[Akrapovic]

I can't wait for an actual gate to be involved in a scandal so it can be Gategate. Gate Squared, if you will.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I can't wait for an actual gate to be involved in a scandal so it can be Gategate. Gate Squared, if you will.

Ooooh.... like at le mans, they lower the garage door or "gate" and are classified as "out" or "dnf" but then come back out hours later?