Lites / LMP3

[NaBUru38]

LMP3 should be used in IMSA Lites, not TUSC.

[Deleted]

Why? If all things stand as rumored with 2017-IMSA-P2 the P3 formula could end up being about as technically advanced as the spec-parts & cost-cap & Conti-Hoosier & BoP & OEM bodywork "P2" mess

[pablocomics]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

LMP3 should be used in IMSA Lites, not TUSC.

LMP3 will be excesively fast/expensive/hard to drive for the average glenteman driver of IMSA lites. Those cars are serious business.

ACO said that the LMP3 will have the numbers of the current LMPC, but I Think that those cars will be at least 2-3 seconds faster than current LMPC, they will have more HP, same weigh and acording to renders it seems to have more sophisticated aero than current LMPC

...BTW, we are forgetting one of thhe biggest market for all those prototypes, hillclimbing races

[Deleted]

They will bopped down/up to have middle way gap between LMP2 and LMGTE, so in other words it doesn't matter if they have more power than the LMPC. And running everywhere else like in Lites, the pace can also be modified if needed. But I don't see why.

And as LMPC is only a fraction faster than IMSA Lites, there wouldn't really be big performance increase for drivers up there. The only differences would be adapting to coupe format. As for costs, how much do those old Lites cost nowadays?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Chiana

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...t-the-nec.html

Also re-confirms that somewhat foolishly LAS is not going to bother running their Adess-whatever cars themselves at all.

Not very convincing move to attract customers.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by pablocomics

LMP3 will be excesively fast/expensive/hard to drive for the average glenteman driver of IMSA lites. Those cars are serious business.

The IMSA Lites car is much easier to drive than the current spec Tudor LMPC car.

-mike

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Not very convincing move to attract customers.

Yeah I don't really know what they are doing up there. There's not much incentive to go join the Loeb-Adess-Sora gang when you can directly see how the GJs can perform/look and how their customer service works.

Maybe they'll switch their attitude when at Silverstone you'll see a full spec- Ginetta Juno grid and no-one else But even then it seems a bit late when majority of the interested party has already chosen their package. So then you'd start to need convincing customers for next year primarly

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

The IMSA Lites car is much easier to drive than the current spec Tudor LMPC car.

-mike

Lawrence Tomlinson said in one of those RML interviews that they made a big effort to make the LMP3 accessible to amateur drivers. They want to sell it to gentleman racers and track day drivers and they don't want it to bite them.

[FIRE]

But what makes these cars so much different from powerful CN cars?
Stiffness? High down force aero?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Yeah I don't really know what they are doing up there. There's not much incentive to go join the Loeb-Adess-Sora gang when you can directly see how the GJs can perform/look and how their customer service works.

Maybe they'll switch their attitude when at Silverstone you'll see a full spec- Ginetta Juno grid and no-one else But even then it seems a bit late when majority of the interested party has already chosen their package. So then you'd start to need convincing customers for next year primarly

Didn't Loeb end another racing programme in favor of this LMP3 project?

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by FIRE

But what makes these cars so much different from powerful CN cars?
Stiffness? High down force aero?

A roof.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Didn't Loeb end another racing programme in favor of this LMP3 project?

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms/...s-out-of-lmp2/

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Mike E

A roof.

The guys from Wolf actually claim that a CN is faster than a P3...

[FIRE]

A roof means maybe less visibility but I don't that makes the car harder to drive.

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The guys from Wolf actually claim that a CN is faster than a P3...

Isn't that just depending on the engine?

LMP3 has 420 bhp engine.
Wolf GB08S has 500 bhp engine.

[Deleted]

The few CNs were often slower than GT3s in AsLMS and absolutely miles away from LMP2... ACO would never allow similar to happen with P3. So it doesn't matter what Wolf or specs say

[pablocomics]

Originally Posted by FIRE

A roof means maybe less visibility but I don't that makes the car harder to drive.


Isn't that just depending on the engine?

LMP3 has 420 bhp engine.
Wolf GB08S has 500 bhp engine.

Wolf GB08S is not a CN. that's a track day car that uses a CN frame, but this is not a CN. It's like all those Norma M20 with a Judd V8

CN cars uses N group engines, most of them Uses a 240HP 2.0 Honda engine,that's why a CN car is perfect for glentemen. The difference is huge with LMP3, LMP3 are similar to the current LMP cars while CN cars are much closer to the old WSC/SR cars

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The few CNs were often slower than GT3s in AsLMS and absolutely miles away from LMP2... ACO would never allow similar to happen with P3. So it doesn't matter what Wolf or specs say

That's AsLMS for you....

Didn't check a lot of tracks because the VdeV website is a bit of a pain to navigate, but here are the qualifying times for Barcelona 2013 (2014 isn't available for some reason):

Norma M20FC: 1:42.527
Porsche 911 GT3-R: 1:48.363

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

That's AsLMS for you....

Didn't check a lot of tracks because the VdeV website is a bit of a pain to navigate, but here are the qualifying times for Barcelona 2013 (2014 isn't available for some reason):

Norma M20FC: 1:42.527
Porsche 911 GT3-R: 1:48.363

Yeah, but since (non track day) P3 is only gonna be used in ACO competition it hardly matters who's got theoretically faster car in that particular trim, LMP3 is gonna be made faster... so Wolf's statement is sort of useless.

But TBH the difference between the CN and GT3 you mention there is surprisingly big indeed. I didn't bother to go looking into "those races" since with all the BoP crap around judging what's real and what's not is extremely difficult. Well not necessarily in Vdev so much (?) but certainly in many other events. I remember couple of years ago at Abu Dhabi 12h there were CN(s) entered and they were bop-penalised after being quicker than GT3s in practice...

[Speed-King]

Checked some more times from VdeV and Italian GT (because VdeV-GT might not be quite representative for all a GT3 can do), here are the times for Mugello:

CN: 1:41.401
GT3: 1'47.890

The document for GT3 specifically state that that time was run in good weather on a dry track...

So the gap between CN and GT3 is only a few seconds smaller than between LMP2 and GT3 at most tracks... if P3 is to slot in in the middle between those two it seems very conceivable that it will indeed be slower than CN.

[Deleted]

Yes very possible, again in non-ACO trim

[Deleted]

Some chitchat with VB
http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/lm...746_18574.html

Says that LAS has "launched construction" and are "working flat out to supply cars as soon as possible". Which doesn't really meet the words we've been hearing, but that was probably just general PR talk.

"Advanced negotiations concerning the entry of several LM P3 cars in Asia" - oh same kind of negotiations they had when they released +15 car entry lists for this seasons AsLMS lol...

He then says LMP3 presence at LM is subject to there being room, but if you have the 56 starters + maybe some random other(s) like extra AF Corse or whatever, that leaves plenty of space for the 70 car limit the circuit can hold in testing/practice. Just give 'em some tents, garages are luxury...

You know if VdeV introduces this P3, and someone (like Boutsen) enters LMPC and/or LMP2 cars as well, that series might almost become the new ELMS Junior

[brakedisc]

I was a bit disappointed with the Ginetta LMP3 at the Autosport show. It seems to have made very little progress since the tub was first shown. Is there an issue with the regulations on certain sizes?

[brakedisc]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

I was a bit disappointed with the Ginetta LMP3 at the Autosport show. It seems to have made very little progress since the tub was first shown. Is there an issue with the regulations on certain sizes?

It appears there is. Article in MN suggests that it was designed for a V6 and the ACO changed the regs to a V8 so now there are "issues".

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

It appears there is. Article in MN suggests that it was designed for a V6 and the ACO changed the regs to a V8 so now there are "issues".

Oh dear. That doesn't sound good.

[Deleted]

Aww the price you pay for being the first to test the ice and build the car for new concept.

In regards to that, last week there was interview on E-I with Rollcentre's Short, and among other things (like how he wants it to become like GT3 in popularity but without the BoP crap nonsense) he said

As decisions on the specification of the car were late, the has put a lot of pressure on getting the cars in time. Oreca and Xtrac are working really hard to get the power and transmission units together in time, but my feeling is that for the Paul Ricard test, there will only be one or two cars, but Ginetta are hoping that all the players will be able to attend and get a feeling for the car. After that, there will be a rush of parts to finish the cars in time for a test day session at Silverstone, hopefully with ACO approval, for all LMP3 competitors, and then into the race. Its going to be very close for sure, but I have confidence in Ginetta, Oreca, and the ACO and ELMS organisers to make this work with satisfaction and success for all stakeholders in this new class.

Oreca sure must be busy trying to make this thing work properly, but also trying to modify Rebellion's R-One for new engine installation + finalizing 05 LMP2 coupe + helping Toyota with race rep + other things they have going on. No wonder delays are expected