Grand Am making its move, is it time for ALMS to make its move?

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by joeb

That would be pretty cool if GA somehow organized a SuperGT and DTM combined race in the States - even if it was a one off it would be awesome.

Yeah, maybe someone would show up for a GA race. This has all the making of when the FIA GT cars raced in the States in '97 :crickets: Unless they race at Wakins Glen on the undercard of a Cup race. Epic fail.

[6157]

Originally Posted by JAG

The ALMS is attracting a younger demographic who in this internet age understand the differences between a 908 and a DP or an M3 GTR and a spaceframe RX-8. Thirteen years on from the first Petit Le Mans this younger fanbase is making itself heard and seen, manufactuers and sponsors are taking note.

That's very obvious. Just the other day I heard a pack of kids talking about how they love that Yancy's Fancy Cheese they bought after watching Laguna Seca on TV.

Oh wait...well I'm sure they meant the internet.

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

There have been talks with a number of parties, on various directions some of which didn't go anywhere. It is hard to judge the accuracy of things heard, but if what I've heard is anywhere near accurate, there will likely be no tie in with between Grand Am/DTM and Super GT.

Of course not. You never hear any positive rumors concerning Grand-Am, Brett.

Originally Posted by fiend540

I used to watch grand am all the time, but you can only watch Scott Pruett win so many times before it becomes boring. "I want to say high to my wife and kids" lol

I'm guessing you didn't watch a ton of ALMS from 2000 to 2007 then.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by 6157

That's very obvious. Just the other day I heard a pack of kids talking about how they love that Yancy's Fancy Cheese they bought after watching Laguna Seca on TV.

Oh wait...well I'm sure they meant the internet.

Laguna was on TV...

Of course not. You never hear any positive rumors concerning Grand-Am, Brett.

Thank You for clarifying for me, what I do, and don't hear. For you, that was a polite dig, so Thank You again. Your accusation however is very wide left, which perhaps if you'd even go back and read this whole thread you would see clearly.

Some of the future direction being talked about, appear to be very positive IMHO... but we shall see if they are carried through.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

The rumor I've heard is that 1) DTM, GT500 and DP will all feature a common chassis and 2) Grand-Am will go its own way on rules but Grand-Am will become a partner to help bring a couple DTM rounds to the U.S.

Chris

THIS

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

There were events with lower attendence, Miller and Laguna, but overall the average attendence was up this year, even before adding in PLM.

THAT

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Just a random question, would a DTM round in the United States actually be a success? I remember when FIA GT came to the United States in the late 90's. I even attended the 1998 Homestead race, and the crowd was dissapointing to say the least.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Just a random question, would a DTM round in the United States actually be a success? I remember when FIA GT came to the United States in the late 90's. I even attended the 1998 Homestead race, and the crowd was dissapointing to say the least.

I don't know in which thread I posted it, but I think it depends on how you plan it... have it at Watkins Glen right before the Sprint Cup race and it will be a success... have it at Homestead in the middle of October with nothing else and it will be an epic failure...

[HJJ]

^^^^ Sounds familar.

Originally Posted by HJJ

Yeah, maybe someone would show up for a GA race. This has all the making of when the FIA GT cars raced in the States in '97 :crickets: Unless they race at Wakins Glen on the undercard of a Cup race. Epic fail.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I don't know in which thread I posted it, but I think it depends on how you plan it... have it at Watkins Glen right before the Sprint Cup race and it will be a success... have it at Homestead in the middle of October with nothing else and it will be an epic failure...

I would be careful having it before a sprint cup race, take the July grand am race at daytona. When GA announced that the "Paul Revere 250" would move from Thursday night to it's new time slot before the cup race Grand am was confident, saying that "grand am would race in front of 100,000 people", the same 100,000 people that turn up for the cup race that evening. However, for the past two GA races before the cup race in July, the cars on track have greatly outnumbered the spectators in the grandstands.

Not sure if it would be different at the glen however, but even the Hockenheimring in germany is having problems filling grandstands for DTM.

[6157]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Just a random question, would a DTM round in the United States actually be a success? I remember when FIA GT came to the United States in the late 90's. I even attended the 1998 Homestead race, and the crowd was dissapointing to say the least.

There's no intentions to run DTM as a support race on Sprint Cup weekends.

The DTM races would be in conjunction with Grand-Am and the "NASCAR" DTM series.

[Canada ALMS fan]

In other words: Grand Am is a failure as a headlining series so let's try to corner the road course market with a different one. If this happens watch GA as we know slowly get phased out and DTM with a version of FIA GT3 get promoted. Not a bad idea, but DTM won't work over here IMO.

[TF110]

Cus over 'ere in ol' Mah-rica we like ar' circle traks!

Seriously there isn't anything in common with nascar and road racing. So the fans of that series are wondering what the heck are those things with the wings on the back? See how long the rear wing lasted in Sprint Cup? That's about how long G.A. Sports Car racing would last if it wasn't paired with Nascar. There's just no interest. So they have to force it in there. Show it before the Sprint Cup race. Make it a 1.5 hour race if they have to, just to raise peoples interests. I know it sounds horrible and it's supposedly not a supporting act, but I don't see any other way of getting G.A. off the ground!

[trahsub]

Now if DTM replaced NASCAR entirely. . . that would be pretty neat.

[porman]

One can dream!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

In other words: Grand Am is a failure as a headlining series so let's try to corner the road course market with a different one. If this happens watch GA as we know slowly get phased out and DTM with a version of FIA GT3 get promoted. Not a bad idea, but DTM won't work over here IMO.

That's the heart of the problem.

If DTM manufactuers were to invest in a US series as they do back home GA would be blown out of the water and the Daytona 24hrs could become a GT3/4 event like the Spa, Nurburgring and Britcar 24hrs.

It's difficult enough to attract manufactuers at the best of times, what's going to happen if there's an internal battle between NASCAR, GA and US DTM?

The GA GT field is being modernised to reflect what's happening in national GT series across Europe. R8's are in British GT, ADAC GT and more but the customer nature of these programs is why the worlds focus was on the ALMS last week.

GT3 has been up and running for some time but if you look at trends GT4/Cup cars are becoming increasingly popular, the R8 and SLS could be the last of their kind.

[Fogelhund]

I appreciate that this is Facebook, just haven't found other photos elsewhere.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Audi-S...12400115457408

Audi has introduced a racing prepped version of the Audi TT RS(for VLN). Perhaps this would be a better price and performance fit for Grand Am?

[6157]

Originally Posted by JAG

It's difficult enough to attract manufactuers at the best of times, what's going to happen if there's an internal battle between NASCAR, GA and US DTM?

NASCAR doesn't have "internal battles".

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I appreciate that this is Facebook, just haven't found other photos elsewhere.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Audi-Sport/112400115457408?v=wall#!/photo.php?fbid=156536727710413&set=a.156536714377081.35000.112400115457408

Audi has introduced a racing prepped version of the Audi TT RS(for VLN). Perhaps this would be a better price and performance fit for Grand Am?

The R8 is a Grand-Am project. No amount of fanboy crying is going to change that.

And don't blame Grand-Am for "stealing" this project either. Blame the incompetent ALMS management for losing it.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by rich07

Marshall Pruett takes an interesting look at how Grand Am may look in 2012.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...s-set-for-2012

With some great design studies by Andy Blackmore (andy_b).

http://www.andyblackmoredesign.com/grandam

Top stuff Andy-as always.

I like these designs! Of course these are just design studies and we don't know how these look in reality. Would be great if LMP1's would look like this.

[JAG]

NASCAR doesn't have "internal battles".

Neither do the DTM and Super GT need to fight GA's battles.

The R8 is a Grand-Am project. No amount of fanboy crying is going to change that.

And don't blame Grand-Am for "stealing" this project either. Blame the incompetent ALMS management for losing it.

Losing the Audi P1 program was a blow, the R8 is a GT3 customer car.

Now is not the time to lose sight of why GTC was introduced and set themselves up for future migration from GTE to GTC.

The ALMS has enough on it's hands handling the smooth introduction of the new prototype regulations and helping the likes of HPD, Roush, Riley and co.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by 6157

The R8 is a Grand-Am project. No amount of fanboy crying is going to change that.

And don't blame Grand-Am for "stealing" this project either. Blame the incompetent ALMS management for losing it.

Always looking for the fight? Fanboy crying?

I probably understand more about the Audi/ALMS situation than you do and I'm not blaming anybody for anything.

The purpose of my post was simply to point out the new TT, which in my opinion would be a better car for Grand Am to adopt given lesser performance and price. Unless of course GT was moved up to full GT3 specs, which isn't a bad idea.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by 6157

NASCAR doesn't have "internal battles".



The R8 is a Grand-Am project. No amount of fanboy crying is going to change that.

And don't blame Grand-Am for "stealing" this project either. Blame the incompetent ALMS management for losing it.

Defending something when somebody didn't even say anything bad about it, but of course that's not fanboy behaviour...

[TF110]

G.A. should just make the GT cars FIA GT3 spec. Then turn the Daytona Prototypes into what SuperGT or DTM is. If they did this and opened the doors for those two, as a unified project with a carbon chassis like SuperGT and use a common engine like 3.4liter V8's in SuperGT we could potentially see manufacturers like Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, Audi, BMW all come in and bring their cars since they run in their native lands anyway. If that didn't attract Chevy to make a Carbon Corvette, or Ferrari to do the same or McLaren to bring a MP4 over, I donno what would. That would potentially be the best GT racing ever seen.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

G.A. should just make the GT cars FIA GT3 spec. Then turn the Daytona Prototypes into what SuperGT or DTM is. If they did this and opened the doors for those two, as a unified project with a carbon chassis like SuperGT and use a common engine like 3.4liter V8's in SuperGT we could potentially see manufacturers like Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, Audi, BMW all come in and bring their cars since they run in their native lands anyway. If that didn't attract Chevy to make a Carbon Corvette, or Ferrari to do the same or McLaren to bring a MP4 over, I donno what would. That would potentially be the best GT racing ever seen.

Aint happenin'.


L.P.

[trahsub]

Originally Posted by TF110

G.A. should just make the GT cars FIA GT3 spec. Then turn the Daytona Prototypes into what SuperGT or DTM is. If they did this and opened the doors for those two, as a unified project with a carbon chassis like SuperGT and use a common engine like 3.4liter V8's in SuperGT we could potentially see manufacturers like Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, Audi, BMW all come in and bring their cars since they run in their native lands anyway. If that didn't attract Chevy to make a Carbon Corvette, or Ferrari to do the same or McLaren to bring a MP4 over, I donno what would. That would potentially be the best GT racing ever seen.

Except for the fact that there's a clause in the Grand-AM rules where they need to wait ten years from the time new technology is introduced.

[Birddog07]

If GA adopts FIA GT3 spec cars and the new DP's are eligible to race in SuperGT and DTM, and SuperGT cars and DTM cars in GA, then that sounds like a pretty good formula. Pretty much agree with that Marshall Pruet article, I believe prototypes need brand identity.

It's sad that the ACO/ALMS, which is a better overall series I think, haven't done anything about GT3 cars and production based LMP's. Think of the CLK's and 911 GT1's back at LeMans, prototypes but anyone could easily recognize them.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

If GA adopts FIA GT3 spec cars and the new DP's are eligible to race in SuperGT and DTM, and SuperGT cars and DTM cars in GA, then that sounds like a pretty good formula. Pretty much agree with that Marshall Pruet article, I believe prototypes need brand identity.

It's sad that the ACO/ALMS, which is a better overall series I think, haven't done anything about GT3 cars and production based LMP's. Think of the CLK's and 911 GT1's back at LeMans, prototypes but anyone could easily recognize them.

That's exactly what I'm talking about, and it fits with the 'identity' that G.A. is talking about for it's prototypes. If G.A. was smart they'd do exactly that, and try to entice SuperGT and DTM since the talks of those two series were taking place, not sure about now though. With engine manufacturers already in the DP class, it would speak a lot to have 3 manufacturers from Japan, or in actuality 4 or 5 with Subaru and Mazda. On top of that the German manufacturers of Audi Mercedes, possibly BMW with their involvement in DTM. That's upwards of 8 car makes. Who in their right mind wouldn't call that competition. Like I said this isn't likely to happen but this is what they should do. It's been an idea of mine for a while. Ever since I saw this


I know that's basically a DP car that's modified for SuperGT. So if they can use that there, then why not vice versa?