The merged Merger thread (again !!)

[Fogelhund]

The I500 today had a great finish, and that is how this race will be remembered.

This race itself will not impact any potential future merger in any manner.

This race doesn't improve, or detract in any manner from what the Champcar people are doing. It won't make their jobs any harder, as they try and build a base for sponsorship of teams, and a TV audience. That really is their key isn't it?

I don't believe that today's race changes the philosophical differences that the two ownership groups have. Nobody really knows what those differences were, that ultimately has lead to no merger for 2007. Of course, the doors are not closed for a merger in 2008, but with new events being worked on for both series, and the new Panoz DP01 being introduced, I find it hard to believe that the Champcar people will compromise as much as I believe they need to, in order to get the deal done.

It would appear that Tony wasn't that willing to bend much in these merger talks, and that certainly is his perogative. I don't think he will be any more willing to bend now, perhaps even less so.

I don't think that today's race will at all force the Champcar people's hand in the least. A merger from these folks will require a disasterous 12 months on their part, and a waving of the white flag. It could happen, but I think they'll try another year, then just close shop. Otherwise, they need to find a great big trump card from somewhere, and somehow become a viable concern, call me a sceptic.. but.. I don't see it. I see no merger, close shop after 08'.

Marco Andretti sure stepped up today though. Perhaps this race can be leverged, to find the sponsorship that the Honda/Toyota funding withdrawl leaves. That is the main question that remains. I now believe that the IRL will be the last man standing, though exactly what that landscape looks like is still to be determined.

I question the participation of the Penske, Ganassi, AGR, Rahal teams past 06' and 07'. Maybe today's race is the first step in a new economic reality, and maybe not. If those four teams leave, we are left with an IRL that resembles what was there up until Toyota/Honda came, which is slightly less professionalism, and much lower costs. I'm not sure if that is a huge loss in any case.

Time will tell, and there are plenty of cards to be played, and we will never know when, or if, a wildcard will show. Today was a wildcard, though it would have been better played with Marco as the winner.

[drdisque]

The only teams I can see leaving to do other racing are Ganassi and Rahal. AGR has done nothing to indicate that they're looking to do anything else, none of them have any experience in anything else, and Indy is pretty important to them. Penske will always be at Indy, remember, he was the first major CART team to jump ship and I'm sure he didn't make a lot of money doing so (remember, that was the old engine days).

Ganassi already owns teams everywhere, if the Indycar side stops making money he'll shut it down.

Rahal has a history with sports cars and the fact that Graham isn't terribly excited about racing at indy (although I do believe he'll race there someday) might mean that they might try their hand at something else.

However, I don't see any of those teams leaving in the near future and think the IRL is the strongest they've looked at least since all the teams jumped in '02-'03.

There are obviously technical problems (mainly chassis issues) coming up for both series, but they shouldn't affect the business side.

but back to the topic. I think today's race was good for open wheel racing in general, but mostly for the IRL. But I don't think it gives TG any more leverage. I don't think KK watched that finish and said "Oh, I get it now, how can we resist?"

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by drdisque

The only teams I can see leaving to do other racing are Ganassi and Rahal. AGR has done nothing to indicate that they're looking to do anything else, none of them have any experience in anything else, and Indy is pretty important to them.

For the record, Andretti has been involved in the ALMS talks, to become one of the factory Acura/Honda LMP2 teams. They have been involved in these discussions since May 2005. Michael has raced in numerous Sportscar events.

Doesn't Penske need to find a new sponsor for next year?

[Fish_Flake]

I'm still 100% in favor of a merger. It was a great race, and the IRL has something to work with. But to become stronger than what it already is, one series has to come together to provide 25-30 strong entries and to eliminate the casual observer's confusion. The IRL is very top-heavy: Champ Car would double the car count and add teams much more competitive and competent than Marty Roth Racing and the Car-Melo. A merger has to be peaceful, because the Champ Car owners and managers are very dedicated to their series, have invested a lot into it, and will likely go down with the ship rather than jump.

A larger, stronger field will provide more interesting racing on the track. It will keep talented drivers from completely disappearing after losing a top ride, as IRL drivers have since its inception. It will provide both better development opportunities and showcases of international and domestic talent. Most of all, it will help quiet the constant rumors whether its young American talents (Hornish, Andretti, Patrick, Rice) will bolt for NASCAR.

[Dutton]

There is also the side that, should there not be merger, and should both die off...we would be left, most likely, with NASCAR producing some form of OW series. That really wouldn't be good. I don't have anything against NASCAR per say, indeed tend to watch the various races in the various series (not all, but that is by chance of other commitments rather than design), but having it control another discipline of NAm motor racing wouldn't be ideal.

I don't think the 500 has had/will have any particular impact on the overall future of OW racing in NAm. It was just one race, ultimately, and that, like it or not, is the sum of it.

****

100% off-topic --> I have tried to see ALMS races, but for the life of me fail to see them scheduled on any channels I have. What, if any, Canadian/available-in-Canada channels broadcast it? Although, IIRC, Speed is going to show a couple of them later in the year.

[drdisque]

If the IRL and Champ Car were to shut down, the Indy 500 would likely be run with simple bonanza "run what you brung" rules. While interesting, I doubt it would make for a very good race.

[Seoigh]

Originally Posted by Dutton

****

100% off-topic --> I have tried to see ALMS races, but for the life of me fail to see them scheduled on any channels I have. What, if any, Canadian/available-in-Canada channels broadcast it?

Suggest you check for broadcast information on the ALMS website.
Good Luck.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Dutton

100% off-topic --> I have tried to see ALMS races, but for the life of me fail to see them scheduled on any channels I have. What, if any, Canadian/available-in-Canada channels broadcast it? Although, IIRC, Speed is going to show a couple of them later in the year.

http://www.americanlemans.com/Schedu...nSchedule.aspx

[Dutton]

Ah, well, will get the last 4 then. Don't get CBS, .

Thanks muchly.

[marcus]

Im getting pretty tired of merging threads on this subject.

Can we please keep ALL discussion of a merger in this thread

[luke]

Lol, is ALMS getting merged with the IRL and Champ Car as well?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Nobody really knows what those differences were, that ultimately has lead to no merger for 2007. Of course, the doors are not closed for a merger in 2008

Fogelhound, has no merger for 07 even been confirmed yet? Last I heardboth parties were still working on it, and that August would be the lastest time for a merger to be announced for 07.

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I don't think that today's race will at all force the Champcar people's hand in the least. A merger from these folks will require a disasterous 12 months on their part, and a waving of the white flag. It could happen, but I think they'll try another year, then just close shop.

May I ask where this idea is coming from? What makes you say they will give up the championship at the end of 07?

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Fogelhound, has no merger for 07 even been confirmed yet? Last I heardboth parties were still working on it, and that August would be the lastest time for a merger to be announced for 07.

I'll take the liberty of answering for Fogelhund -

No, there's been no confirmation of "no merger for '07" publicly. What we do know is that the DP-01 assembly was put on hold (not parts manufacturing, that was ongoing) while they awaited input on possible design changes - specifically a lower nose and a 3.0L NA engine. This has now been nixed and the build continues with the high nose and 2.65L T.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

What makes you say they (CCWS) will give up the championship at the end of 07?

This is just informed speculation. There's no real data to support it other than number$.

[climb]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

...

This is just informed speculation. There's no real data to support it other than number$.

But there's little doubt that , as far as now, TG wouldn't dislike that result.

I heard such a rumour, too

[indycool]

Whatever....it would seem pretty obvious that if two series combine in some form into one, there would be one championship instead of two.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by climb

But there's little doubt that , as far as now, TG wouldn't dislike that result.

I suppose, but not pursuing a merger is a bit like waiting for the skyscraper to burn down to the ground so as to not waste water.

[JohnSSC]

Unfortunately paul-collins, that is almost exactly what firefighters are trained to do (sorry)!

I think this will take a good long while to play out and when it is over, most of us will look at the result and say: "They are doing what?"

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Unfortunately paul-collins, that is almost exactly what firefighters are trained to do (sorry)!

I know, but they don't have to restore the building - their role is simply containment. I would hope TG is thinking beyond just containment...

(Perhaps I should have used a smaller building in my analogy. )

[indycool]

If/when a merger or one series or combination or whatever we want to call it happens, IMO, it's not going to look like anything that's been speculated on the boards the last two months. We've had speculation about chassis, schedules, who's in and out, who's going to run it, etc., but this is all about power and money and I doubt if the eventual (maybe) solution is going to make a lot of sense to fans of either side.

[JohnSSC]

And we have a Winner!!!

IC, I think you have this one figured out. For all we know, there is a "power behind the throne" on one side or the other (an owner, sponsor or international person of mystery) who is calling the shots and everyone else who is publicly involved is simply a surrogate.

Anyway, IF there is a merger the end result could end up looking like something assembled by body-snatchers...

[Tim Northcutt]

This story was on the Front Page of the Indianapolis Star this morning

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...18/1004/SPORTS


Sharing ownership sounds like a big hurdle has been cleared...How to do that would be another matter.

I'm assuming that the April weekends would be St. Pete & Long Beach...but maybe Motegi, since Honda is trying to bring this all together.

I still don't see this happening until 2008 at the soonest, but at least it is something.

[indycool]

Agree, Tim......the structure will take longer.....

[Dutton]

Baby steps, and all that.

Good to read.

[Snips1]

At least they have finally agreed on something...

[indycool]

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.a...82966&nav=0Ra7