Future Grands Prix?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't subscribe to the ''F1 belongs only in Europe'' argument. Historically, Europe is where F1 started and today Europe is predominantly where F1 still takes place, but I don't see that as being snobbish, it is just a fact. Many of the race tracks outside of Europe are European designed.

As for F1 expanding into areas of the world that are not well represented, I'm all for that. For example take South America, it has a great motorsports legacy, with a huge fan base but it is grossly unrepresented, with only one GP. Argentina once had a GP; F1 should look to bringing that back and look to see where else in South America it could go.

However, I don't subscribe to the ''just because areas are unrepresented they should have a GP'' argument. Some of these areas, that were unrepresented and now host GPs, previously never had any form of motorsport worth talking about, or at all, and despite them hosting GPs, have never really developed any homegrown motorsport.

Therefore I would like to see F1 expand into areas that are unrepresented but also have some form of motosrports background, on which to build and develop.

BJ, I don't disagree with you one bit, well, certainly not as far as South America is concerned. The problem seems to be that those who are in charge of granting licences to run a F1 race have pretty well priced themselves out of most countries apart from places like the Middle East and Russia. Even China, that can actually afford to run the races there, are unable to see the financial benefit of hosting them any more.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't subscribe to the ''F1 belongs only in Europe'' argument. Historically, Europe is where F1 started and today Europe is predominantly where F1 still takes place, but I don't see that as being snobbish, it is just a fact. Many of the race tracks outside of Europe are European designed.

Agree on this. Especially that the history is the history.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

As for F1 expanding into areas of the world that are not well represented, I'm all for that. For example take South America, it has a great motorsports legacy, with a huge fan base but it is grossly unrepresented, with only one GP. Argentina once had a GP; F1 should look to bringing that back and look to see where else in South America it could go.

Very much agree on South America for the reasons you give.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

However, I don't subscribe to the ''just because areas are unrepresented they should have a GP'' argument. Some of these areas, that were unrepresented and now host GPs, previously never had any form of motorsport worth talking about, or at all, and despite them hosting GPs, have never really developed any homegrown motorsport.

Therefore I would like to see F1 expand into areas that are unrepresented but also have some form of motosrports background, on which to build and develop.

Agree with the qualification that it is more complicated (as you say) and it is not just as simple as "Geography is under represented therefore it needs a GP". F1 can, has and will fail in places in which there is not a strong motorsports culture. The question is then if F1 is the right method to bring motorsports culture to specific locations. Probably not. Africa was brought up in the thread (of which I agreed it should have a GP). But it should only happen under the right conditions. Including having a local fanbase that can support the race locally.

All in all. I think we are on the same page. But without beating a dead horse too much, F1 clearly started in Europe and the vast majority of participants (teams, drivers and fans) are in Europe. But that "center of gravity" should never be used to advocate against growth in other areas. While we all want the pie to be larger it will have a limit (schedule wise). So the pie may both grow a bit and also move a bit. So this may mean... potential for fewer races in some places so as to allow for growth in others. There will be winners and losers with schedule changes. Its VERY easy to say that the middle east is over allocated and to make that a target for poaching events. But the time might come when this happens to Europe. And you can say that has already happened (Where is the German GP these days?), but also the European part of the schedule is not all bad (Welcome back Dutch GP!)

Lastly, sorry for me being very forceful with my opinions on this topic. This is one area in which I have strong opinions. I don't mean to go around poking people in the eyes.

Richard

[bathurst77]

I would like to see them go back to Sth Africa.
How about a Scandinavian race? (in the snow hehe)
Maybe more Asians - Sth Korea, Indonesia?
What happened to Vietnam?

[chillibowl]

If a potential local venue can’t sell 75kplus affordable tickets all bought by average local punters does a venue deserve to be on this stage just because their venue looks good for the tv?

I know FOMs answer but as a long time spectator my answer is different.

[chunterer]

I agree with that. Take Scandinavia for example, big motorsport heritage and pedigree. Lots of drivers have come from Finland, Sweden, Denmark and Norway in circuit racing and from even more of the regional countries in rallying and rallycross.
Big investment in Sauber too.
Huge fanbase to please...

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

If a potential local venue can’t sell 75kplus affordable tickets all bought by average local punters does a venue deserve to be on this stage just because their venue looks good for the tv?

The tickets would be a lot more affordable if the race sanction fee wasn't a minimum of $35m USD...

Albert Park makes a loss which is subsidised by the state government, that explains why (for example) despite having Grade 1 circuits the owners of Sepang Circuit, Malaysia or Buriram Circuit, Thailand are not going to hold a Grand Prix without government subsidy.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

If a potential local venue can’t sell 75kplus affordable tickets all bought by average local punters does a venue deserve to be on this stage just because their venue looks good for the tv?

Of course the Middle East races are dubious, but it is important to remember that it is the FIA Formula One World Championship and not the preceding AIACR European Championship. As much as the FIA world championship includes many of the same events as the AIACR European Championship, such as the Monaco Grand Prix and Italian Grand Prix, it is meant to be a world championship.

Therefore there should be plenty of races in Asia, North America, South America and Africa.

PS. As for races in Asia, the Macau Grand Prix being held for Formula One cars would be a lot of fun!

Originally Posted by S griffin

I mean F1 hasn't exactly had a great relationship with America, so why do we need 3?

Why not? There were traditionally at least two Grand Prixs in the US: two each of Long Beach, Dallas, Detroit & Phoenix.

If the promoter can put the deal together despite the sanction fee, then fair play to them. Other promoters like the SA Motorsport corporation (Adelaide street circuit) or the Surfers Paradise Street Race organisers can't make the numbers work for additional Formula One events, but the US promoters can -- good job!

If a race promoter in the US wants to hold a Formula One race instead of an Indycar race, for whatever reason despite F1's much higher sanction fee, I really don't see the issue.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

In fairness S. Griffin didn't say, it is now only available on streaming services like Disney but said, ''I just hope we don't see F1 on some streaming service like Disney+''.

That doesn't make sense though. Disney+ is much cheaper than Sky Sports or Fox Sports AFAIK.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

That doesn't make sense though. Disney+ is much cheaper than Sky Sports or Fox Sports AFAIK.

I'm unsure of Fox Sports prices, but Disney+ would be a much cheaper way to watch F1 in the UK (if it was included in the standard package).

Watching F1 on Sky, the cheapest way (AFAIK) is a monthly subscription of £33.99. Over 9 months, that is £305.91.

There is currently a cheaper way in the UK, by taking a NOW day pass (which incidentally is a streaming service). At £11.99, then you are only paying £263.78 for 22 races (the British GP is already on FTA).

If the Disney+ package stayed the same price, then you are only paying £71.91 for the season.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

That doesn't make sense though. Disney+ is much cheaper than Sky Sports or Fox Sports AFAIK.

He said streaming services like Disney+, so I think Disney+ is being used as an example.

[broadrun96]

Fun times for F1 in America, the land of anyone can sue. Another round of people putting pressure on the courts to block the Miami GP. It's lead by 2 ex-commissioners and a judge is willing to hear the case. If Miami doesn't hurry up and issue the special use permit the court challenges could impact the start of the event

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Fun times for F1 in America, the land of anyone can sue. Another round of people putting pressure on the courts to block the Miami GP. It's lead by 2 ex-commissioners and a judge is willing to hear the case. If Miami doesn't hurry up and issue the special use permit the court challenges could impact the start of the event

Sounds very much like the "Save Albert Park" crew that's been badgering for the Aus GP to go away every year since 1996

[Sodemo]

What a shame there wasn’t a “Save the Österreichring” during the mid 90s.

[Adam43]

? Even the shorter circuit was good. Wonderful place to watch racing. And a decent track for racing too.

I think I might have what you mean backwards. I presume you didn’t want them to act like the Save Albert Park crew.

[S griffin]

The current Red Bull Ring is fine, it certainly has a beauty for it. It's good it's survived all this time and it's still on the calendar.

Fact is, the Save Albert Park protesters have not get very far have they?

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The current Red Bull Ring is fine, it certainly has a beauty for it. It's good it's survived all this time and it's still on the calendar.

Fact is, the Save Albert Park protesters have not get very far have they?

The problem is an outstanding track was replaced with a “fine” one, but yea thankfully that appears to happen less now. The recent “upgrade” of Zandvoort was actually surprisingly tastefully done.

[bjohnsonsmith]

According to Sky Sports F1, a deal is being worked on for a return to South Africa next year.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...lendar-in-2023

[chillibowl]

it would be great but at the cost of another track or an even longer calendar im less whelmed?

they need to find a way to limit the number of events even if that means rotating venues in and out from season to season imo.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Maths has never been my strong point, but 23 this year remove Russia makes 22.

For the 2023 season we then have
22 plus Las Vegas, a returning China (possibly) and now South Africa yet still only 23 events.

Something doesn't add up?

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Maths has never been my strong point, but 23 this year remove Russia makes 22.

For the 2023 season we then have
22 plus Las Vegas, a returning China (possibly) and now South Africa yet still only 23 events.

Something doesn't add up?

Add Qatar makes 26, but Spa and Paul Ricard are seriously at risk and Monaco is also locked in a contract dispute. I suspect two of Spa, Monaco, Paul Ricard or Kyalami will be out and we will have 24 races next year. However, although I would prefer 20 races in a season, I would not be unhappy with a return to Kyalami, as it is a great, proper racetrack and in a continent currently without a Grand Prix.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

Add Qatar makes 26, but Spa and Paul Ricard are seriously at risk and Monaco is also locked in a contract dispute. I suspect two of Spa, Monaco, Paul Ricard or Kyalami will be out and we will have 24 races next year. However, although I would prefer 20 races in a season, I would not be unhappy with a return to Kyalami, as it is a great, proper racetrack and in a continent currently without a Grand Prix.

The original Kyalami was a great track.The current one is Hungaroring minus.
Kyalami will be in a double header with Albert Park.China won’t happen.France is gone.One of Monaco or Spa will go.

[BTCC frog]

'Future' Grands Prix probably isn't quite the right place for this, but how would you design your perfect F1 calendar, where you can choose what era of cars you want, and maybe make some other changes as this is obviously an 'ideal' calendar rather than a realistic one.

Here is mine, using 1960s cars but imagining I can make the drivers totally safe from injury or death (perhaps this is cheating, but I wanted to use the dangerous tracks).

1. Albert Park, Australia. Not among the best tracks on the calendar but it is better than average, and for me the season starts with waking up in the early hours for the first Grand Prix in Australia.
2. Sepang, Malaysia. Disappeared from the calendar in 2017 but tends to provide exciting racing and can also provide changeable weather conditions. Much-missed from the calendar.
3. Kyalami, South Africa. An exciting, high-speed track in a continent that doesn’t currently have a race track. The backdrop of the track is also somewhat unique.
4. Donington, UK / Portimao, Portugal / Reims-Gueux, France (on rotation). This is a cheat way of sneaking in more good tracks. Donington has only hosted one GP but it was a classic, and the Craner Curves and the Old Hairpin are a cracking sequence of corners, Portimao was the best new edition to the 2020 calendar and provides great side-by-side racing, and there’s just something beautiful about Reims.
5. Bremgarten, Switzerland. Disappeared following Switzerland’s ban on motorsport after the Le Mans disaster, but was a great high-speed track with some heavy braking zones as well.
6. Monaco. Undroppable, for its history and the skill required to drive it, despite the processional races, and overtaking was far easier in smaller cars.
7. Montreal, Canada. Another track that tends to provide interesting races, and the race here in 2011 was the greatest of all time.
8. Silverstone, UK. A good high-speed track that also allows cars to run side-by-side for much of the lap, and so there can be some great battles here.
9. Red Bull Ring, Austria / Osterreichring, Austria. While the Osterreichring is an amazing high-speed track, there are quite a few of those on this calendar and the shorter Red Bull Ring is particularly good for side-by-side racing, so I have decided to alternate between the two layouts.
10. Rouen-Les-Essarts, France / Clermont-Ferrand, France. Two very similar tracks, which are great to watch the cars on, and are in great locations.
11. Hockenheim, Germany. Another good track which usually provides exciting races and is much-missed from the calendar.
12. Hungaroring, Hungary. Doesn’t always provide good racing but for some reason there have been quite a few crazy races there. It probably would have better racing in the old cars, and there are some interesting corner sequences.
13. Spa-Francorchamps, Belgium. This is a track that is brilliant despite being shortened from the original layout, and I would alternate between the layouts.
14. Monza, Italy. But the version of this track without the chicanes for some unique slipstreaming races.
15. Brands Hatch, UK. Another beautiful track with some great corner sequences that would be much better for old cars than the current ones.
16. Zandvoort, Netherlands. A welcome return to the 2021 calendar, and the banked corners are particularly exciting.
17. Nordschleife, Germany. If only it wasn’t so dangerous. This track reminds be of a rally track more than an F1 track and, to watch a qualifying lap, would be the best in the world to watch the cars. It couldn’t not be on this calendar.
18. Watkins Glen, USA. It is a shame that the increase in American circuits has resulted in more street circuits rather than classics like Watkins Glen.
19. Suzuka, Japan. Has provided some great title deciders in the past and is also one of the best on the current calendar to watch a qualifying lap, while in older, smaller cars the races would also be more exciting.
20. Interlagos, Brazil. Alternating between the layouts. I like this track to be the title decider even though it was among the early races for a long time, but on the current calendar it is probably the most likely to provide an exciting races, and the weather can often play a part as well.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

Here is mine, using 1960s cars but imagining I can make the drivers totally safe from injury or death (perhaps this is cheating, but I wanted to use the dangerous tracks).

along those lines and as a point of reference, i would be interested in seeing those 60s era cars race in anger at the tilkedrome tracks...find out if the problem with those tracks are the tracks themselves or the modern era of F1 cars?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Madrid is interested in hosting a grand prix in the future.


https://racer.com/2022/06/23/madrid-...ng-an-f1-race/

[NaBUru38]

My calendar: Melbourne, Sepang, Istanbul, Barcelona, Monaco, Montreal, Miami, Zandvoort, Paul Ricard, Red Bull Ring, Silverstone, Hockenheim/Nürburgring, Spa-Francorchamps, Monza, Singapore, Suzuka, Las Vegas, Mexico, Interlagos.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

My calendar: Melbourne, Sepang, Istanbul, Barcelona, Monaco, Montreal, Miami, Zandvoort, Paul Ricard, Red Bull Ring, Silverstone, Hockenheim/Nürburgring, Spa-Francorchamps, Monza, Singapore, Suzuka, Las Vegas, Mexico, Interlagos.

Can't see much wrong with that calendar, apart from missing Imola and Portugal. And I would keep Hungary too, as it's got better with age. But you've got my ideal number of 19 there