Future Grands Prix?

[chunterer]

Domenicali and Bin Sulayem confirmed it in the paddock before the race today.

[S griffin]

Good to have it continue, it would be a travesty to use it. Also loving how much better the circuit is looking with the improved runoffs

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Good to have it continue, it would be a travesty to use it. Also loving how much better the circuit is looking with the improved runoffs

It's a matter of taste really. I understand why they've done it but it does grate when you look at the surrounding area.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It's a matter of taste really. I understand why they've done it but it does grate when you look at the surrounding area.

Garish, is the word I would use.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It's a matter of taste really. I understand why they've done it but it does grate when you look at the surrounding area.

I agree. Not 100% sure which parts of the changes you are talking about. There is (1) the fact they pushed back the edge in general, the (2) unfinished look of where they did add new fill material (as seen in Hamilton's walk back) (3) the off course paint/decorations.

I don't like #1, but understand why. I hope #2 is temporary and it is just needing additional landscaping so as to blend in with the surroundings, #3 see my comments below.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Garish, is the word I would use.

It is a bit garish. Especially for Spa. It seems to be the new fad these days to have colorful patterns off the main circuit. I think it CAN work on some circuits, but for those that are set in a more natural setting (such as Spa or Red Bull Ring), I think it clashes with the surroundings.

I suspect that a big part of what FOM has with circuits like Spa is facilities and lack of a general pizzazz that is more evident at urban (Monaco, Miami, Las Vegas) or newer circuits with things like the bright colors, LED lighting, etc. (Yas Marina, Bahrain)

I think it's fair for FOM to ask for improved facilities and maybe even entertainment activities for the larger weekend event. But don't try to make circuits homogenous. Let them have their own character. Even if that means less visual glitz for classic tracks.

Richard

[Peter Mallett]

Not sure if anyone on here is aware but there is a tree in the paddock behind the old pits at Spa. It's called the tree of death and it is where they laid the mortal remains of drivers who suffered fatal crashes in the old days. There is a bar next to it and at one time FOM, or whomever, wanted to get rid of it. There was an outcry and now it remains in place.

However there also used to be great bars and cafes in the same area. Always a good atmosphere and somewhere where you could meet friends for a beer and food (Woopy Snacks anyone?). They went, to be replaced by homogienised bars where you need tokens to buy anytihing.

[bjohnsonsmith]

F1 have released the 2023 season, 24 race calendar.






https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...hMqq8nmHOFenEI

[S griffin]

So it breaks the record of most GPs in the season, but really it’s nothing to celebrate. Still way too much quantity, not enough quality. I mean, how could we lose the birthplace of GP racing in France, having worked so hard to get it back? And still no German GP despite the dominance in the last decade of a German manufacturer. Talk about wrong priorities

[Teretonga]

All a bit crazy.
Miami one weekend and Azerbaijan a week later.... Really?
Then two weeks later Imola then a week later Monaco followed by Spain another week later?
Two more weeks and you are in Canada and another two weeks you are in Austria.
So much for the influence of example in reducing global warming....

The USGP/Mexico/Sao Paulo run is at least in a similar time zone and then two weeks till back in the US at Las Vegas is at least partly a regional run but four races in five weekends?

If we had 16 races in a season that would be enough.
Familiarity breeds contempt.
I don't know if the incidents recently at Spa, Zandvoort, Italy reflect a different sort of spectator or if it's just the result of people breaking out after the covid restrictions but is this what we (long term f1 fans) want to see the sport become?
Do we want F1 track audiences to become like the worst iterations of football fan excesses?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

If we had 16 races in a season that would be enough.
Familiarity breeds contempt.

Instead we have 24 Petit Prix.

I don't know if the incidents recently at Spa, Zandvoort, Italy reflect a different sort of spectator …

I feel a bit out of the loop, so I don’t really know what you’re referring to, but from the rest I get the idea.

…
Do we want F1 track audiences to become like the worst iterations of football fan excesses?

Seems so. The rage, the controversy. It’s clicks and views.

It’s also tiresome.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Do we want F1 track audiences to become like the worst iterations of football fan excesses?

Maybe - who is this elusive 'we' that gets to determine who an F1 fan should be?

[S griffin]

I feel 19/20 races should be the maximum. Less is more. I'm all for them trying new venues, but they need to get the locals interested or there's no point

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I feel 19/20 races should be the maximum. Less is more. I'm all for them trying new venues, but they need to get the locals interested or there's no point

The point is they pay Liberty a lot of money.

[steve_r]

The more the better as far as I am concerned, although Mrs _r may not agree.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Instead we have 24 Petit Prix.
I feel a bit out of the loop, so I don’t really know what you’re referring to, but from the rest I get the idea.
Seems so. The rage, the controversy. It’s clicks and views.

It’s also tiresome.

I think you've nailed it right there, the bad behavior moves the ad dollars and the clicks. It's not necessarily a change in behavior but rather a change in what is reported, that feeds the idiots who want to be seen on the coverage. And the coverage is 10000% focused on the masses, I've seen multiple TV shots that left the racing to show a crowd. If you don't think morons act like morons when they knew TV cares, you just don't watch the world in general. People in large quantities act like the dumbest of the group

[chillibowl]

Will they be increasing the PU components allotment?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Maybe - who is this elusive 'we' that gets to determine who an F1 fan should be?

Us. See my bracket in the post.
The people here who for the most part are long-time fans of the sport

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Us. See my bracket in the post.
The people here who for the most part are long-time fans of the sport

Understood - long-time fans of the sport may be resistant to change.

But in this echo chamber is there a danger of not recognising what other fans (present and future) want from the sport?

Other series' in motorsport regularly face criticism for not moving with the times, and sticking to outdated views on how a sport should be run. I think there is am argument to be made that sports have to change, or face extinction in the long term. If the long-term fan is the paradigm that the future fan has to become, eventually the popularity of a sport will fade into obscurity.

Sometimes, it seems that F1 is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.
Some venues are criticised because they have limited attendance - no culture of support in their country - dull atmosphere at the circuit.
This feels to me the opposite of that - the venues you mentioned (Spa, Zandvoort, Italy) are fêted as having a strong history of motorsport fandom, and a crowd with passion and enthusiasm. Maybe in the post-covid world, this is what passion and enthusiasm looks like in those countries?

I think there is a middle ground here - but tempered with an acceptance that the direction of crowd behaviour will change over time.

[NaBUru38]

The more F1 races, the less coverage for other championships.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Understood - long-time fans of the sport may be resistant to change.

But in this echo chamber is there a danger of not recognising what other fans (present and future) want from the sport?

Other series' in motorsport regularly face criticism for not moving with the times, and sticking to outdated views on how a sport should be run. I think there is am argument to be made that sports have to change, or face extinction in the long term. If the long-term fan is the paradigm that the future fan has to become, eventually the popularity of a sport will fade into obscurity.

Sometimes, it seems that F1 is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.
Some venues are criticised because they have limited attendance - no culture of support in their country - dull atmosphere at the circuit.
This feels to me the opposite of that - the venues you mentioned (Spa, Zandvoort, Italy) are fêted as having a strong history of motorsport fandom, and a crowd with passion and enthusiasm. Maybe in the post-covid world, this is what passion and enthusiasm looks like in those countries?

I think there is a middle ground here - but tempered with an acceptance that the direction of crowd behaviour will change over time.

I think the mythical "f1 fan" wants the following

1. All of the races to be in Europe. Except for those "cool" legacy races outside of Europe like Suzuka or Brazil because that is where Senna came from!
2. No races in any country in which the "f1 fan" has some type of negative opinion. Apply appropriate jingoistic or nationalistic biases as needed.
2. Stands to be full of cheering fans so that they can feel validated that F1 truly means something to not just them, but others as well such as those in attendance at the race.
3. No glitz and glamour unless it has some sideways interest to them such as fly overs by old WW2 planes that they idolized as children (note, if they can make them all Spitfires, even better yet). Anything that is nostalgic and takes them back to their childhood is a bonus.
4. No celebrities in the pit unless they are someone they consider to be a "true celebrity" such as.. "Oh, is that Jean Alesi I see standing next to Giancarlo Minardi?" No movie stars unless you happen to really like the movies they are in.

I could probably keep going.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think the mythical "f1 fan" wants the following

1. All of the races to be in Europe. Except for those "cool" legacy races outside of Europe like Suzuka or Brazil because that is where Senna came from!
2. No races in any country in which the "f1 fan" has some type of negative opinion. Apply appropriate jingoistic or nationalistic biases as needed.
2. Stands to be full of cheering fans so that they can feel validated that F1 truly means something to not just them, but others as well such as those in attendance at the race.
3. No glitz and glamour unless it has some sideways interest to them such as fly overs by old WW2 planes that they idolized as children (note, if they can make them all Spitfires, even better yet). Anything that is nostalgic and takes them back to their childhood is a bonus.
4. No celebrities in the pit unless they are someone they consider to be a "true celebrity" such as.. "Oh, is that Jean Alesi I see standing next to Giancarlo Minardi?" No movie stars unless you happen to really like the movies they are in.

I could probably keep going.

Richard

I think there are probably quite a number of F1 fans, mythical or otherwise, who would subscribe to your list. But I'm not too sure about anything nostalgic taking them back to their childhood, maybe anything that takes them back to when they first saw a Grand Prix.


You need at least one Hurricane and a Lancaster to accompany all those Spitfires.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I think there are probably quite a number of F1 fans, mythical or otherwise, who would subscribe to your list. But I'm not too sure about anything nostalgic taking them back to their childhood, maybe anything that takes them back to when they first saw a Grand Prix.


You need at least one Hurricane and a Lancaster to accompany all those Spitfires.

Yeah, I thought about a Hurricane. Maybe even go cold war and include an Avro Vulcan, but I don't think any are flying anymore.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Yeah, I thought about a Hurricane. Maybe even go cold war and include an Avro Vulcan, but I don't think any are flying anymore.

Richard

The last flight was on 28 October 2015.

https://vulcantothesky.org/articles/...of-the-vulcan/

[Adam43]

It still does taxi rides. Although that went a little wrong recently and nearly joined a road nearby!

[Adam43]

Obviously, more events even if it means less watch per race means the total eyes on the sport and then the success of the sport, by these simple metrics, increases. Not sure this is in doubt.

There are many ways to get more eyes on the sport. More races. More controversy. More more more.

For me it gets less good and the saturation reduces the worth.
Going to some places rather than others also does. Although new places adds. It’s about balance.

There is a sweet spot with all of this and we’ve past it.

And it ain’t about going back to the past. That’d be awful. Generally the future is always better than the past.

Not an F1 fan view. My view. I wouldn’t consider to speak for this group of people, as I don’t really know them and I’ve never met them.