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2 Nov 2022, 10:34 (Ref:4132401) | #3201 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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What might the rotational calendar look like?
Based on the votes here: Year One
Year Two
Year Three
Year Four
Year Five
Year Six
There is then the option of hosting a 20th round if a venue wants to be added to the calendar. They would get their first entry on a 3-year basis (to justify the financial commitment) and then their status would be reviewed against the existing circuits. |
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2 Nov 2022, 10:46 (Ref:4132403) | #3202 | |||
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2 Nov 2022, 11:40 (Ref:4132408) | #3203 | |||
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Yes, but most of those workers also go home to their families every night plus spend their weekends at home. That is not a luxury the F1 circus is able to enjoy. And before the nit-pickers try to take apart every word written on these pages, I know fully well that some workers work at night, and/or do shift pattern work and some even have to work at the weekends, but they don't all work away from home for weeks on end. |
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2 Nov 2022, 11:47 (Ref:4132409) | #3204 | ||
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Have they though? Have they all done enough to warrant a full time place on the calendar? IMO, no. Quality is important, not quantity |
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2 Nov 2022, 12:14 (Ref:4132416) | #3205 | |||
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I accept that the sample size is small, and it is just a snapshot in time. But who decides what a circuit has to do to warrant a full time place on the calendar? In the theoretical calendar cycle I put forward, the cut-off for 'full-time' inclusion was 75% of votes. Or to put it another way - more than a quarter of respondents don't feel that circuits such as Albert Park, Monza, Monaco etc. should be a permanent fixture on the calendar. I also found it interesting to see which circuits were equally as popular. Examples include: Monaco=Sepang Mugello=Marina Bay Yas Marina=Fuji |
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2 Nov 2022, 12:44 (Ref:4132426) | #3206 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
I like the idea of a core set of races and another set that have some sort of rotating schedule. I had wondered about the option of having a split championship and some type of abbreviated "finale" with a limited number of drivers (like the NASCAR chase or whatever it is called). I think that has many many more problems than what you are saying. Overall the problem is balance between fair global representation and servicing fan demand and the quantity of races imposed upon the teams. Quote:
But in the end, it fits into the flavor of rotating races or trying to support other segments of the fan base. And frankly I don't have any better ideas on how to do five races in North American. Richard |
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2 Nov 2022, 13:07 (Ref:4132432) | #3207 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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That's an interesting idea having a rotational calendar but I'm not too sure about including India or South Korea. It didn't exactly work out too well when they last hosted GPs. I would like to see another race in South America. There is a massive fan base crying out for a Grand Prix. |
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2 Nov 2022, 14:34 (Ref:4132444) | #3208 | ||
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japan earlier instead of during typhoon season is a welcome change. in y2 tho, that may be late enough to avoid torrential rain storms? likewise, canada near the end of the year (anytime after august really) and cooler weather may be more of an issue?
anyways, im nitpicking...love the idea of a rotating calendar. skipping a Monaco every once in a while may actually make my heart grow fonder. |
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2 Nov 2022, 14:41 (Ref:4132445) | #3209 | |||
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they should deserve another shot. less sure about India tho. down side of alternating at places that were rarely used like Buddh meant dusty dirty track conditions that didnt do the racing any favours. that track would need to see a lot more racing events to be a practical addition? plus the (regional) gov't in India leaves a lot to be desired. doubt F1 ever goes back there for fear of having their kit held hostage by custom/bribe officials. |
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2 Nov 2022, 14:42 (Ref:4132446) | #3210 | |||
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More effort would be required to really identify the best climatic conditions for each venue - and it is just a very idealistic view of how the season(s) could be organised. |
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2 Nov 2022, 14:46 (Ref:4132448) | #3211 | |||
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2 Nov 2022, 15:35 (Ref:4132458) | #3212 | |||
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It's some time since I wrote about this, and I'm afraid I cannot remember all of what I wrote back then. In essence, the circuit was created adjacent to a reasonably large town/city that is basically a large heavy industrialised area, and the backdrop to the circuit was the very visible huge shipbuilding facility that is one of the main employers anywhere near the circuit. And the local population could well be described as mainly blue collar workers. As far as I know, nothing has changed since the last F1 race there. One of the major obstacles to the popularity of the race was the fact that the circuit is poorly served by transport links to the nearest international airport. There were infrequent rail services and they were quite lengthy, and it was about an eight hour drive to Seoul which is where the best hotels and facilities are situated. I don't believe that many from the F1 circus were overly upset when it disappeared from the calendar. |
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3 Nov 2022, 03:08 (Ref:4132494) | #3213 | |||
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Working for one of the teams would be similar so could easily accommodate 25 races a year. |
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3 Nov 2022, 05:47 (Ref:4132496) | #3214 | |||
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A 40hr week for 48 weeks in a year is 1,920hrs. 12hrs a day for 7 days, 25 weeks a year is 2,100hrs. |
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3 Nov 2022, 07:34 (Ref:4132500) | #3215 | |||
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You are describing two different types of workers in your example. Yes, people like offshore oil platform workers go out to the rigs and work there for a number of weeks before being transported back to the mainland where they will usually have an equal amount of time off work as on site. However, there those industries typically have multiple crews that alternate their time away. But that isn't the case in F1, although there used to be two crew sets in most of the teams in past times when teams were permitted unlimited testing between races and seasons. Then, it was not unusual to have one group drive and /or fly to set up the garages, etc. and engineer the cars during the race and then fly back home, with a second group flying in to take over duties to carry on the testing after the race, and then dismantling everything before either going on to the next race or returning to base. Since that has been stopped, the teams only have one team to do everything, like the truckies, the guys that set up at the circuit and do the on-site catering. Typically, a truckie or two in particular will leave base on a Sunday driving to the circuit so that they arrive by Wednesday and proceed with a group of employees to set up the garage and hospitality facilities plus the catering staff who are needed as well. Then, after the race, they often don't return to base, rather pack up and go straight on to the next race circuit. And now, especially in view of the budget cap, teams cannot afford the luxury of rotating their staff because that sort of money is required to be spent on the cars. Asking those members of the team to do more and more races, especially the fly away ones, is totally unfair to them. That is why when they started increasing the number of races in a season, the agreement was reached to have the break that now exists at the end of July into August. But that break time hasn't been extended since the current number of races has been increased. In fact, the season is worse for these employees because the season starts earlier in the year and ends later. |
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3 Nov 2022, 07:42 (Ref:4132501) | #3216 | |||
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4 Nov 2022, 01:22 (Ref:4132563) | #3217 | |||
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With 25 races a year the travelling F1 teams could work a 1 on, 1 off schedule with the occasional 2 on, 1 off swing for double headers. This may sound onerous to a week day worker but these working conditions are common in some industries. |
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4 Nov 2022, 01:44 (Ref:4132567) | #3218 | ||
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And they don’t have to do it. No one has a right to a holiday.
Actually the teams that long term do the best will be the ones that manage to give their employees a good balance. Stop them burning out, keeping them happy and engaged. Give flexibility to attract and keep the best. |
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4 Nov 2022, 09:17 (Ref:4132584) | #3219 | |
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I do think more consideration should be made for the mechanics and the like. They deserve their time off and for me there are too many races and too much travel. That's partly why I think GPs should be places that are worth visiting, i.e. have enough local interest.
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4 Nov 2022, 09:34 (Ref:4132586) | #3220 | |||
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This is fine in theory, however, in the current real world of F1 economics and budgetary caps, this is not feasible. As I have written before, no team can now afford to have two squads of staff that travel to races, one on and one off as you suggest. It also needs to be borne in mind that the squad that attend races also have work requirements back in their bases; they don't just twiddle their thumbs between each GP. With the need for the teams to employ the best that they can, it means that the wage bill is huge, and this is why they all dropped a number of employees when unlimited testing was stopped because at that time the were able to operate in a way similar to what you suggest. |
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4 Nov 2022, 09:47 (Ref:4132588) | #3221 | |||
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So if you take an employee on the scheme you suggest. 25 times a year, they will be working a 84-hour week. Travel time to / from the races is also considered to be 'at work' if it is a requirement of the employer. In addition, they will have a role back at the base. It might be common in some industries - but those are typically based around the time away from home being employed, but when they return, the individual is not having to work. For F1 teams, the majority of roles have a 'home' commitment as well as when they are travelling to race weeks. |
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4 Nov 2022, 10:07 (Ref:4132591) | #3222 | ||
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Unless the UK decide to go their own way. |
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4 Nov 2022, 14:50 (Ref:4132617) | #3223 | ||
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given that this is also a sporting endeavour, how much training and practice are the crews doing between races? i would imagine their time is already pretty limited.
for sure cost would be a factor, one that would still hurt the smaller budget teams more, but putting that aside, while multiple crews per team seems like the logical solution to more races, my concern would be that between subbing crew members in and out, A & B squads how frequently would we see a team's best crew at any given race? removing a teams ability to always field their best crew might seem appealing (more mistakes more 'random' occurrences), i worry that combining this with more races would just lower the level of performance for every race. a greater dilution of sport if you will? supposition: fewer races allows teams to put the best versions of themselves out there across those fewer events? i dont know where the sweet spot is (personally for me its around 16-17) but surely its not 24+ either. is anyone here, among us actual fans, looking forward to a longer calendar? i cant say i recall anyone ever supporting it? |
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4 Nov 2022, 14:55 (Ref:4132619) | #3224 | |||
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Back to the original topic, I like watching F1 so having a season of 25 races sounds great. Teams can adjust their spending to get the best performance possible while also managing the wellbeing of their employees. |
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4 Nov 2022, 15:01 (Ref:4132620) | #3225 | |||
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It's nothing to do with any desire for viewers or spectators (or real fans) to see more races; this is about Liberty - and Bernie wasn't adverse to this - trying to monetise the package, partly so that they can recoup their investment which I don't think that they have yet. The teams aren't particularly happy with the extra races, but they have been bribed by being allowed to have an increased budget cap, but, more importantly, increased payments from FOM as a consequence. |
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