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18 Jun 2011, 20:13 (Ref:2901599) | #3201 | ||
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18 Jun 2011, 23:37 (Ref:2901653) | #3202 | |||
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Quote:
AM has no excuse they built a purpuse build endurance prototype that cant turn 10 laps at le mans. Its their baybe from front to back and its all shoddy work |
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To launch a new FIA GT2 category based on strict technical rules, with limited wavers and ‘balance of performance' limited to success ballast. A category where GT manufacturers will prove through competition they can produce the best road going GT car. |
19 Jun 2011, 08:51 (Ref:2901734) | #3203 | ||
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JLOC had no excuse at all. Should never had entered. But we did that to death long ago. The thread's about Aston, not JLOC or BRM.......
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280 days...... |
19 Jun 2011, 09:39 (Ref:2901758) | #3204 | |||
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Quote:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...al-report-lmp/ . Last edited by knighty; 19 Jun 2011 at 09:52. |
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19 Jun 2011, 18:00 (Ref:2901950) | #3205 | ||
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Sam mentions AMR is considering twin turbos. I'm curious, having been an ardent fan of the Porsche 959, is anyone doing sequential turbo charging these days or is that well out of fashion? |
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19 Jun 2011, 18:27 (Ref:2901964) | #3206 | ||
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Ford 6.4 Powerstroke diesel has been using seq. turbos for a while, and the 6.7 has a seq-like compound turbo (two turbochargers in one) of which one half has a VTG-like setup.
However, I don't know of any racing applications of such a thing, at least recently--the Porsche 961 (the road racing derivitive of the 959 Group B/Rally Raid cars) may've used the seq. turbos of the 959, but I'm not sure if that transfered, as the car only raced at LM in '86 and '87 to my knowlege. |
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19 Jun 2011, 20:03 (Ref:2902020) | #3207 | ||
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Let's all drink the cool-aid for a minute...
Say Aston Martin do perform this magic turnaround, just what are we thinking would be "good" 2011/2012/2013? Outright ILMC/WEC win? Best petrol? Top 10? Finishing the race? |
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There's an old F1 adage, 'If you want to finish first, first you have to be a duplicitous little moaning git' |
19 Jun 2011, 21:46 (Ref:2902085) | #3208 | |
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Against the current field, best petrol car has to be the goal.
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19 Jun 2011, 22:38 (Ref:2902122) | #3209 | |||
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2011 Complete a race distance 2012 There or there abouts with petrol runners (assuming no new factory petrol effort) 2013 Overall competitive performance, while probably not challenging for wins At risk of sounding like Dr Pangloss, the running so far would appear to indicate that the chassis isn't bad, so if the engine can get sorted, and in the right circumstances, I can see the AMR-ONE winning a race in LMS / ALMS circumstances, although I suspect they're never going to have the baseline level of resources to win against WEC opposition. If they achieve this it's probably not a bad thing in terms of their overall business model - something distinctive and broadly competitive is still going to be highly collectible, which deep down is what Aston Martin is ultimately selling. |
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20 Jun 2011, 00:50 (Ref:2902163) | #3210 | ||
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It seems that the factory petrol rumors are centered around hybrid projects. The AMR-One's compact engine seems to leave room for hybridization, any chance we could see that next year? It could help them close the gap, but on the other hand, maybe it would be better if they went without it given their budget constraints and need to do significant testing just with what they have now. Does anyone have an idea about what Dave Richards was talking about when he was saying that the performance balancing will be different when the FIA comes in? I thought the FIA's role was mainly for promotional items and that regulations were still in the ACO's hand. Maybe not? Richards' comments seem rather...odd...given what we have been told what will happen next year, but maybe he knows something we don't. |
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20 Jun 2011, 05:51 (Ref:2902201) | #3211 | ||
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If success is being measured against being the fastest petrol car in the field, then everyone is in for disappointment It never will be. Not in its current form. Those folks expecting victories need to smell some coffee and get off of the pharmaceuticals. The comments made about the chassis handling: pretty much any car will handle well when it is so far off the pace. I would be amazed if the AHA group of contributing drivers will be willing to spend another two years with this 'scrap heap' construction. Life is too short. Lowes will follow Adrian (and he will jump). Harold will jump (back to Pesca/Rebellion?) and Andy (jump anywhere else but AMR). They all can bring money and there is much more immediate success elsewhere. |
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20 Jun 2011, 07:57 (Ref:2902224) | #3212 | ||
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20 Jun 2011, 10:10 (Ref:2902293) | #3213 | |
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Was i the only one that got annoyed with David Richards in the RLM interview? How dare he blame the rules and the Audi/Peugout lobbying for his team coming up with a complete dud as en engine? No matter what the state of the diesel/petrol equalisation is, AMR is not going to feature near the top if their car is hardly faster than a 458!
I really do not see why Audi and Peugout should be scared about the Aston project. If you cannot keep up with LMP2 cars and are miles behind an ancient Pescarolo, then you do not deserve performance breaks. |
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20 Jun 2011, 10:29 (Ref:2902304) | #3214 | ||
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Quote:
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20 Jun 2011, 16:46 (Ref:2902462) | #3215 | |||
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It seems many people are seriously offended by current AMR performance to the level of being unable to read and hear for a short while after they're reminded of Aston Martin. So they start typing vigorously. That's how this thread's so popular. Last edited by Pandamasque; 20 Jun 2011 at 16:51. |
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20 Jun 2011, 17:02 (Ref:2902468) | #3216 | ||
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I just cant wait until this thread after Le Mans next year. Somehow I have a feeling us nattering nabobs of negativism are going to have a good time, but we shall see...
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20 Jun 2011, 17:06 (Ref:2902470) | #3217 | |||
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2012: People will still defend the program no matter their performance 2013: People will still defend the program no matter their performance and 2011: People will still attack the program no matter their performance 2012: People will still attack the program no matter their performance 2013: People will still attack the program no matter their performance. |
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20 Jun 2011, 17:06 (Ref:2902472) | #3218 | |
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My impression was that when Richards was asked "Why are your engines crap?" his response was along the lines of "We had to take a bad concept because the regulations favours the diesels and that is ACO/Peugout/Audi's fault" (not exact quote obviously). To me that was a wrong and very arrogant reply. I would have liked to see him take responsibility for the catastrophy, apologise to all the AMR fans and pledge to go back to the drawing board. Instead it was another attack inthe petrol/diesel equivalency debate, which in my opinion has absolutely nothing to do with the failure of the AMR-One.
I want to see Aston Martin do well. I loved their GT1 DBR9 and the AMR Lola was a very cool car. I am by no means a particular Aston Martin fan, but it is good for sportscar racing to have them here. After all they are the 3rd biggest team in prototypes. And because they are AMR and have pedigree it is very disappointing to see them with a performance that rivals JLOC in crappiness. Particularly when we have seen this disaster coming for months. Sportscar racing only has so many constructors and can not afford to see top teams produce crappy cars like that. Aston Martin has let down sportscar racing, and i would like to see them apologise for that and pledge to take things seriously from now on. Instead we have Richards claiming that Audi and Peugeot are "running scared" and it is because of this his company can not do more than 4 laps at Le Mans. I know top leaders thinks they are being clever by selling their spin story. But that comment from Richards was in my opinion insulting. And in my opinion that attitude is not what AMR needs at this moment if they are to recover (which i hope they do). |
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20 Jun 2011, 17:25 (Ref:2902477) | #3219 | ||
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To be honest, i had my fear already when the Lola AMR came around.
Compared to how many entries and projects Aston Martin has had at Le Mans, the two overall victories, is poor. Aston Martin and Mercedes has the same curse, winning Le Mans is almost impossible. |
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Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
20 Jun 2011, 17:37 (Ref:2902483) | #3220 | |||
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DR did mention that the equivalence is way off (it's not like we had to be reminded about that, we did watch the race) and he was right to say that disparaging any efforts by the potential competition is a way to keep the equivalence as it is now. And the way people talk about current petrol engines (apart from AMR) proves his point. Apparently even these new Toyota engines have half the torque of the diesels not because the diesel technology has that inherent advantage but because they just don't try hard enough. |
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20 Jun 2011, 19:13 (Ref:2902522) | #3221 | ||
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There seems to be alot of people slamming AMR's I6 turbo engine choice, but there is no substance to back up the slams........Bartensky included.......BMW have decided to ditch their normally aspirated V8 in favour of a twin turbo I6 in mass production, if it was such a bad engine configuration, they wouldnt launch it into mass production........turbocharging an I6 is really nothing to get so heated about........the overall problem with AMR's effort is starting to project so late, they seemed to compress 2 years into less that 1 year.
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20 Jun 2011, 19:17 (Ref:2902526) | #3222 | |
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Funny little facts - #009 would've outqualified the 2008 GT1-entered #009 DBR9 by just over half a second No excuses can hide the horrible performance we just witnessed the other week. I suppose you can only go up from here, but when you need about twelve seconds to be on the pace of the leading petrol car alone...
I just hope FIA doen't start screwing up with the ACO and equivalence formula too much, we all know how brillant they are when it comes to performance balancing ... Richards is probably crying for a 300kg weight break and 20mm restrictor increase already. |
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20 Jun 2011, 19:29 (Ref:2902530) | #3223 | ||
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When in doubt? C4. |
20 Jun 2011, 19:56 (Ref:2902544) | #3224 | |
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I saw Adrian Fernadez talking at lenght with Dr Mario Thyssen at Le Mans and exchanging business cards at the end....
My friend overheaard the words "price" and "service"..... I don't suspect they might be planning a summer holiday together |
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20 Jun 2011, 21:01 (Ref:2902574) | #3225 | |||
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But a future (2014?) project together with a private run BMW GT2 seems the most likely. |
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Hvil i Fred Allan. (Rest in Peace Allan) |
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