Grp C/Grp A/V8SC 'Where are they now?' continued...

[anthony81901]

Originally Posted by rdmdog

I may be mistaken, but isn't or wasn't, Ludwig the engine builder for the JPS BMW team (among others since) from the NSW South Coast? Maybe retired to the South Coast?

No problem in believing he may have a German heritage, but I'm pretty sure he was part of the Gardner Aussie crew long term.

Ludwig was born in Munich and presumably BMW Motorsport trained. He was certainly a JPS team employee rather than a consultant from Germany, building the M3 engines in 1987.

After the JPS team was closed he set up BM Conversions with fellow JPS colleague Mirek Cepe in Sydney, doing both race and road car work. He drove the Bill Bryce M3 at Bathurst in 1988 & 1989.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

This was quite a significant car as with the information gathered from this machine, Frank Gardner was able to help persuade BMW that the M3 would be a competitive Group A car at a time when some of the European teams were doubters.

Really, that's very interesting comment. No-one seems to have picked up on this and would be a good addition to explore in the M3 thread.....

I bet Schnitzer and Zakspeed weren't very doubtful though eh anthony?

[anthony81901]

Page 85 of the Barry Naismith 1987 Bathurst annual states:

‘Gardner had been doing a lot of pioneering with the Three Series and was a loud voice in Germany at the end of 1986 pushing for the M3 as a complete replacement for the 635 when others, like Schnitzer, had been doubters.’

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

Page 85 of the Barry Naismith 1987 Bathurst annual states:

‘Gardner had been doing a lot of pioneering with the Three Series and was a loud voice in Germany at the end of 1986 pushing for the M3 as a complete replacement for the 635 when others, like Schnitzer, had been doubters.’

German magazine Rallye-Racing reported of BMW testing a Group A M3 in what looks like European summer 1986. Already by then the car was reported to be a second a lap quicker than the by then yet again competitive 635CSi. So the potential should have been obvious to European teams too.

Jesper

[Alex E]

I think BMW were very comitted to the M3 as long back as 1984 from what I remember. I think with Group A in those days it took a couple of years to get it all homologated & tested etc...but I am sure they were encouraged by the results of the Gp A 325`s in Austalia & Europe.
Alex

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

Page 85 of the Barry Naismith 1987 Bathurst annual states:

‘Gardner had been doing a lot of pioneering with the Three Series and was a loud voice in Germany at the end of 1986 pushing for the M3 as a complete replacement for the 635 when others, like Schnitzer, had been doubters.’

Okay Gardner had been running the 323i and 325i's prior to the M3, but so had some European teams, such as Linder (who would become an M3 "works" team) so Frank was not really a lone voice here. I am sure that by the end of 86 BMW would have no doubt that the M3 would be the 635 replacement. After all the road car AND the Gp.A car had been built and developed by then,(a massive expense no doubt) and it began racing at the beginning of 1987. Okay Schnitzer had just won the 1986 ETCC with Ravaglia in a 635, but hard to see anyone wanting to carry on with this ageing car, especially as the development would probably have ceased by this stage.

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by E36ST

Wasn't the first JPS M3 built up from a 325 chassis & does anyone know which one that then became?

Yep, it became mine in 2004.

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by Geewizz

This little gem just appeared for sale, unsure where it's been hiding for so long....

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=266335540

This is going to upset Michael Spies who beleives he has the Amscar winner too. I'd be pulling the head off the car before buying it to confirm the engine capacity before I handed over the cash. I was told a few years ago they were running 2.7 litre engines in them in NZ (which I beleive was within the local rules at the time)

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Patric Finauer? Take it from the blurb this is an early, converted 325i.

It's till a 325. JPS only converted one car from 325 to M3, mine. They also had only one motorsport M3 shell and the rest were bought as road shells (4 of them to make a total of 6 M3s)

[David Towe]

Ludwig became a milkman in Berry (NSW Sthn coast) for a while and now has a workshop for specialist car prep. Re his BMW Motorsport heritage, I've seen a pic of him in a posed team photo of the 1983 Brabham/BMW F1 team with Piquet and Patrese as the drivers. Kind of makes all my motorsport pics look pretty poor. Also own the "Rookie of the Year" trophy at Bathgurst 87?

[Rob Bailey]

Originally Posted by David Towe

Ludwig became a milkman in Berry (NSW Sthn coast) for a while and now has a workshop for specialist car prep. Re his BMW Motorsport heritage, I've seen a pic of him in a posed team photo of the 1983 Brabham/BMW F1 team with Piquet and Patrese as the drivers. Kind of makes all my motorsport pics look pretty poor. Also own the "Rookie of the Year" trophy at Bathgurst 87?

I think for a while he owned/raced a Group M sports car.
Elva BMW?

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by David Towe

It's till a 325. JPS only converted one car from 325 to M3, mine. They also had only one motorsport M3 shell and the rest were bought as road shells (4 of them to make a total of 6 M3s)

Six (6) David. All race cars or does it include the road car for the BMW chief in that time (Mr.Meachem?)

[racer69]

There were 6 different M3's raced by JPS BMW during 1987

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by David Towe

Ludwig became a milkman in Berry (NSW Sthn coast) for a while and now has a workshop for specialist car prep. Re his BMW Motorsport heritage, I've seen a pic of him in a posed team photo of the 1983 Brabham/BMW F1 team with Piquet and Patrese as the drivers. Kind of makes all my motorsport pics look pretty poor. Also own the "Rookie of the Year" trophy at Bathgurst 87?

Always wanted to race at Bathgurst, espesilly in 1987?

(jest) Camaroz

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by Camaroz

Always wanted to race at Bathgurst, espesilly in 1987?

(jest) Camaroz

Well done Camaroz, you've spotted my weakness...short fat fingers and no typing skills. It's a good job I'm not a typist for a living, I'd starve to death.

[Bown]

Originally Posted by cavvy

You can answer this Bown.

Hi Cavvy. Both cars are Peter C's and #10 will stay #10 as long as we own her. I think that the WTCC was an amazing era!

[GroupA Dave]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Six (6) David. All race cars or does it include the road car for the BMW chief in that time (Mr.Meachem?)

I recall Wheels road tested Mr Meatcham's "M3" back in 1988.

It had been built up from a road going 323i -rather than a bare M3 shell- by the JPS Team in Sydney. It was a light gold colour.

What ever happened to that car?

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Bown

On the Art Cars topic, I found this a little while ago. http://www.uniquecarcarriers.com.au/cars.php check out the car on the bottom left of the page! The M1 & E9 look rather nice too...

How many 05 A9Xs were there? These are Champion collection cars yes? The Bowdens have to two Bathurst winners yes?

[recaro]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

How many 05 A9Xs were there? These are Champion collection cars yes? The Bowdens have to two Bathurst winners yes?

The Torana hatchback owned by Champion is in fact an SS 5 Litre Hatchback.Definatly not an A9X but a nice looking car thats fits in where the real cars are unobtainable.Hope this helps

Recaro

[A9X05]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

How many 05 A9Xs were there? These are Champion collection cars yes? The Bowdens have to two Bathurst winners yes?

As far as I know they are the only 2 X 05 Hatchbacks that exist There is that other 4 Door 05 that is still around, I think from memory that was a L/34 converted to A9X????? that Brock won first time out, after returning back to the H.D.T in 1978!

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by recaro

The Torana hatchback owned by Champion is in fact an SS 5 Litre Hatchback.Definatly not an A9X but a nice looking car thats fits in where the real cars are unobtainable.Hope this helps

Recaro

A replica? OK, but there must be a third HDT A9X surely - the 1978 Harvey car? Or was that car destroyed by Harrop at Griffins?

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

A replica? OK, but there must be a third HDT A9X surely - the 1978 Harvey car? Or was that car destroyed by Harrop at Griffins?

That would be the one owned by Paul Stubber. Incidentally, Brock raced this car at the Amaroo round of the '78 ATCC after Harvey crashed Brock's A9X during testing/practice.

IIRC, the car Harrop crashed at Griffins (in '79) was the '78 Bathurst-winner.

BTW, what did Wayne Negus use in the HDT's 1-2-3 sweep at Wanneroo in 1978, a 2-door or a 4-door?

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

That would be the one owned by Paul Stubber. Incidentally, Brock raced this car at the Amaroo round of the '78 ATCC after Harvey crashed Brock's A9X during testing/practice.

IIRC, the car Harrop crashed at Griffins (in '79) was the '78 Bathurst-winner.

BTW, what did Wayne Negus use in the HDT's 1-2-3 sweep at Wanneroo in 1978, a 2-door or a 4-door?

His own car, painted to suit I would have thought, compared to the cost of freighting it across the Nullaboor.

It's in a group shot (from the 1979 race rather than '78) in the Chevron ATCC 25th Anniversary book (no 50th anniversary book for last year?). Brock, leading Negus, Harvey, Morris, Grice and Tim Slako. And of course Negus car is pointed most directly at the camera, hiding its profile. You can just see the edge of the boot spoiler, and it has the rounded L34 look of a four-door, rather than the blade look of the two-door.

[A9X05]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

That would be the one owned by Paul Stubber. Incidentally, Brock raced this car at the Amaroo round of the '78 ATCC after Harvey crashed Brock's A9X during testing/practice.

IIRC, the car Harrop crashed at Griffins (in '79) was the '78 Bathurst-winner.

BTW, what did Wayne Negus use in the HDT's 1-2-3 sweep at Wanneroo in 1978, a 2-door or a 4-door?

The Negus car was a Hatchback!! (Maybe I will check?) Btw doesnt Stubber own 2 Hatches the ex Negus no4 car and the 76 Harvey car?? Wasnt the 4 car the Hatch that he races over in the States??

[ForumNick]

Sorry if this seems simplistic..... but weren't the L34s all 4 doors (with a boot - and a 'vertical' spoiler)? and weren't the A9Xs all 2 door Hatchbacks??

I'm more than happy to be set-straight (if I'm not correct)!