[Team] Alpine: The cars are Racing Points

[Alan52]

They were 4th in Constructors in 2022.
Guess that every move they’ve made since then has been the wrong one.
Feel sorry for Gasly and Ocon who both deserve a better car.How soon can either of them jump?

[Aysedasi]

But to where can they jump?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But to where can they jump?

I believe that only the following have contracts that extend beyond the end of this season, and at least a couple of these expire at the end of 2025:

Verstappen
Russell
Leclerc
Norris
Piastri
Hamilton
Stroll
Albon

So, in theory, at least 12 seats are up for grabs for next year.

[steve_r]

The team need a McLaren-esq upgrade, but seeing as loads of senior staff have left, the likely hood of that is presumably low.

As for the two drivers - I cant see any of the 4 currently fastest teams tripping over themselves to sign up either of them. Ocon has links with Mercedes, but has he really done enough to warrant a seat there?

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I believe that only the following have contracts that extend beyond the end of this season, and at least a couple of these expire at the end of 2025:

Verstappen
Russell
Leclerc
Norris
Piastri
Hamilton
Stroll
Albon

So, in theory, at least 12 seats are up for grabs for next year.

Good time to point out that Hamilton also had a contract that extended beyond 2024 as well....

I'm going to go big and say 18 seats up for grabs in theory

Hamilton and Lance being the only two not...

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by steve_r

The team need a McLaren-esq upgrade, but seeing as loads of senior staff have left, the likely hood of that is presumably low.

As for the two drivers - I cant see any of the 4 currently fastest teams tripping over themselves to sign up either of them. Ocon has links with Mercedes, but has he really done enough to warrant a seat there?

Ocon has barely done enough to warrant a Williams seat.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Good time to point out that Hamilton also had a contract that extended beyond 2024 as well....

I'm going to go big and say 18 seats up for grabs in theory

Hamilton and Lance being the only two not...

We only now know that Hamilton could have accepted an option for 2025 which Mercedes were required to accept; so often with these contracts, it's the other way around, and Hamilton didn't break their contract.

However, we don't know if any of the 12 drivers also have a get out clause in their contracts.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Ocon has barely done enough to warrant a Williams seat.

Ocon is a Grand Prix winner, 3 podiums and a Grand Prix veteran, I am 100% sure he will be an improvement on Logan Sergeant..

I was in favour of Alpine paying out Ocon's contract and running Alonso and Piastri, but for Williams getting a solid veteran to support Albon in scoring points makes a lot of sense -- whether it's Gasly, Ocon or even Magnussen possibly.

Of course, that is unless a Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull offer a lot of money for Williams to run Antonelli, Bearman or Lawson.

It will be interesting to see if Alpine are able to extend Gasly and Ocon's contacts for 2025, or if those drivers are no longer interested in the French national team.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Ocon is a Grand Prix winner, 3 podiums and a Grand Prix veteran, I am 100% sure he will be an improvement on Logan Sergeant..

I was in favour of Alpine paying out Ocon's contract and running Alonso and Piastri, but for Williams getting a solid veteran to support Albon in scoring points makes a lot of sense -- whether it's Gasly, Ocon or even Magnussen possibly.

Of course, that is unless a Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull offer a lot of money for Williams to run Antonelli, Bearman or Lawson.

It will be interesting to see if Alpine are able to extend Gasly and Ocon's contacts for 2025, or if those drivers are no longer interested in the French national team.

All true, but for me he is the most vanilla, underwhelming driver on the grid. At least Stroll, Zhou and Sargeant provide entertainment in the form of the barriers.

There are plenty of solid veterans on the grid, it's time to cull a few.

We have Kmag, Hulk, Bottas, Ocon, Ricciardo, Perez, Gasly, Stroll.

That's 40% of the grid! Could easily get rid of half of these drivers.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Ocon has barely done enough to warrant a Williams seat.

As we know it's tough to keep form and focus high when continually trudging round in cars that don't deliver what they should do.

Fairly confident that if you put Ocon in a Merc he would be very close to Russell's level.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by chunterer

As we know it's tough to keep form and focus high when continually trudging round in cars that don't deliver what they should do.

Fairly confident that if you put Ocon in a Merc he would be very close to Russell's level.

Maybe I was being harsh with Williams but he definitely hasn't done anything that screams top driver.

Correct, but I also don't think Russell is in the top of the top echelon either..

[GTRMagic]

It might not be a surprise if Renault does not proceed with its 2026 engine program..

[steve_r]

Would Andretti buy out the team to get into F1? Or are Alpine fully committed to F1? Or is that possibility a million miles off?

[chillibowl]

Also from that Saward post in the Andretti thread…and also speaking of a Palpatine returning!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...tion/10617254/

Given what went down, I figured I would be more bothered by this rumour but I guess time does heal and the team needs all the help it can get? At the least it’s a new controversy to talk about!

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But to where can they jump?

Gasly is better than anyone driving for Red Bull or Vcarb that isn't Max Verstappen. But Red Bull doesn't care about being the best. Marko seems to put petty politics ahead of winning

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

Gasly is better than anyone driving for Red Bull or Vcarb that isn't Max Verstappen. But Red Bull doesn't care about being the best. Marko seems to put petty politics ahead of winning

Gasly already drove for Red Bull and was dismissed for demanding unreasonable setup changes (literally arguing with Newey in the garage, not that Newey will there anymore) and/or being slow.

Red Bull were happier with Albon as he liked the car setup more in line with the lead driver.

If Gasly is so good (he's fine and solid, certainly) why has Ocon been consistently faster in qualifying in the 2024 Alpine that has lacked rear grip?

It seems Gasly is slow unless cars have rear stability. But therefore Sainz + Gasly would be good for Alpine as at least they like the car the same way (Sainz also becoming less impressive as the Ferrari team puts more load on the front end of the car, allowing Leclerc to pull more of a margin over Sainz!).

As Max Verstappen says: "Understeer cannot be fast, it's impossible."
Leclerc concurs.

That's perhaps an exaggeration, but no use having Gasly if he wants the car to have a different aero balance than the other driver. You can change mechanical setup, but a lot of the aero balance (even the more optimal wing levels, but of course all the floor and "fixed" bodywork) is baked in to the bodywork.

-------

Gasly was also Alpine's third choice of driver behind Alonso and Piastri... Not the most glowing endorsement!

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Gasly already drove for Red Bull and was dismissed for demanding unreasonable setup changes (literally arguing with Newey in the garage, not that Newey will there anymore) and/or being slow.

Red Bull were happier with Albon as he liked the car setup more in line with the lead driver.

If Gasly is so good (he's fine and solid, certainly) why has Ocon been consistently faster in qualifying in the 2024 Alpine that has lacked rear grip?

It seems Gasly is slow unless cars have rear stability. But therefore Sainz + Gasly would be good for Alpine as at least they like the car the same way (Sainz also becoming less impressive as the Ferrari team puts more load on the front end of the car, allowing Leclerc to pull more of a margin over Sainz!).

As Max Verstappen says: "Understeer cannot be fast, it's impossible."
Leclerc concurs.

That's perhaps an exaggeration, but no use having Gasly if he wants the car to have a different aero balance than the other driver. You can change mechanical setup, but a lot of the aero balance (even the more optimal wing levels, but of course all the floor and "fixed" bodywork) is baked in to the bodywork.

-------

Gasly was also Alpine's third choice of driver behind Alonso and Piastri... Not the most glowing endorsement!

It's fair to say a lot of the grid would be behind Alonso and Piastri in driver choices.

[GTRMagic]

Meantime it seems that Mr Ocon will not continue with Alpine next season

[steve_r]

Ocon's departure at the end of the season is now confirmed. It's hard for anyone to shine in that car this season.

Anyway, sometimes such departures are followed swiftly by signing announcements by the new team. At the moment there are several seats up for grabs it seems. In the meantime the rumours about where he will go will presumably be swirling around.

[Sandgroper]

[QUOTE=GTRMagic;4211650]Meantime it seems that Mr Ocon will not continue with Alpine next season[/QUOTE

Would be nice to see another Aussie on the grid

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Meantime it seems that Mr Ocon will not continue with Alpine next season

Probably signed for Andretti

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Meantime it seems that Mr Ocon will not continue with Alpine next season

Rumor is he's off to Haas. Ocon is quick but he'd run Bearman off the road anytime he could

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

Rumor is he's off to Haas. Ocon is quick but he'd run Bearman off the road anytime he could

I agree that Ocon can be quick, but who wants the drama he WILL bring to any team?

Richard

[BTCC frog]

I think the Ocon being a bad teammate thing is exaggerated. Against Perez, the crashes were usually Perez’s fault. Certainly Spa 2017 and Singapore 2018 were more on Perez than Ocon, and only Baku 2017 was predominantly on Ocon and even then not entirely. Against Alonso, there were a few instances of close battling but only in Brazil 2022 did they collide and that one was on Alonso. Against Gasly, Australia 2023 was on Gasly, Hungary 2023 was on neither of them as it was Zhou’s mistake, so Monaco 2024 was Ocon’s first significant mistake against a teammate and even then it was a legitimate overtake attempt, it was just stupid because it was on a teammate.

If he goes to Haas, Ocon might slow down Bearman occasionally with overly aggressive defending, but overall he will bring in a lot more points than Magnussen, Zhou or probably Bottas so I think Haas should sign him anyway.

[steve_r]

I don't think that this spell with Alpine has done Gasly or Ocon any favours at all. Gasly was often "best of the rest" when he drove for Torro Rosso. I thought that his career might go in the same trajectory as Sainz after leaving the RBR family. Now rumours of a Haas or Williams drive seem to be as good as it is going to get?